What PHP 5.5 might look like • Hacker News Board

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#21

Post by mootothemax » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:22 PM UTC

maurimtl wrote: post #10

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction. Dinosaurs were once big and powerful. They dominated the landscape. They don't exist anymore.

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction.

I'm not sure if you're serious, but there are plenty of frameworks on a par with Rails at least (nb: I have zero experience with Django).

At the enterprise level, there's Symfony or Zend:

http://symfony.com/

http://www.zend.com/

If Rails is your thing, CakePHP shares some concepts (although I'll be the first to admit CakePHP has many flaws):

http://cakephp.org/

Want something lightweight that's easy to jump into? CodeIgniter's the one for you!

http://codeigniter.com/

And finally, my favourite, Kohana. Absolutely infuriating since they essentially stopped writing documentation for new versions, but if I need to get something written quickly and reliably, this is my go-to call:

http://kohanaframework.org/

There are tonnes of "serious" frameworks for PHP (I've certainly missed out a few), and frankly, if you're going to try to attack PHP, this is the wrong angle from which to do so.

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#22

Post by debacle » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:23 PM UTC

Spoom wrote: post #15

debacle wrote: post #2

Pretty exciting, though empty() should be deprecated, not improved upon. The bit about getting the fully qualified class name is important, but it still prevents you from doing something like: function builder_factory( $var ) { $class = $some_array[ $var ]; return new $class(); } So you have to write a ton of boilerplate for something that used to be easy without namespaces, or write namespace traversal into your PHP…

I'm curious: Why do you think empty() should be deprecated? Do you think the same of isset?

http://www.zachstronaut.com/posts/2009/02/09/careful-with-ph...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/410002/fixing-the-php-emp...

The behavior of empty is unreliable. isset is not ambiguous.

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#23

Post by giulianob » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:25 PM UTC

mootothemax wrote: post #21

maurimtl wrote: post #10

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction. Dinosaurs were once big and powerful. They dominated the landscape. They don't exist anymore.

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction. I'm not sure if you're serious, but there are plenty of frameworks on a par with Rails at least (nb: I have zero experience with Django). At the enterprise level, there's Symfony or Zend: http://symfony.com/ http://www.zend.com/ If Rails is your thing, CakePHP s…

I've been using Cake since around 1.1 and it started with a decent base but was not very consistent. I just recently upgraded to 2.2 and I was extremely surprised with the amount of refactor and polish in order to make it a very consistent and powerful framework. It's really top notch nowadays. The performance is also better (used to have to do some "hacks" to get good performance before) but I'm not sure how it compares to others.

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#24

Post by mmuro » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:26 PM UTC

Yet another array function. But, array_column does seem super useful.

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#25

Post by mjs » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:28 PM UTC

maurimtl wrote: post #10

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction. Dinosaurs were once big and powerful. They dominated the landscape. They don't exist anymore.

PHP frameworks are pretty decent, and widely liked (if not loved). Though for some reason this doesn't apply to PHP applications: plenty of people dislike Drupal, or WordPress, or Magento. I'm not sure if there's an equivalent situation across languages--does Ruby or Python have loved frameworks and libraries, but unloved (though widely-used) applications?

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#26

Post by dt7 » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:29 PM UTC

mootothemax wrote: post #21

maurimtl wrote: post #10

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction. Dinosaurs were once big and powerful. They dominated the landscape. They don't exist anymore.

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction. I'm not sure if you're serious, but there are plenty of frameworks on a par with Rails at least (nb: I have zero experience with Django). At the enterprise level, there's Symfony or Zend: http://symfony.com/ http://www.zend.com/ If Rails is your thing, CakePHP s…

There's also Slim: http://www.slimframework.com/ ...which you could equate to something like Python's Flask (I think... I only have limited experience with Flask).

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#27

Post by brusch » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:30 PM UTC

maurimtl wrote: post #10

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction. Dinosaurs were once big and powerful. They dominated the landscape. They don't exist anymore.

Disclaimer: I am working for a shop with much PHP knowledge. There are some really nice frameworks for PHP - for example we are using Yii (http://www.yiiframework.com/), Symfony (http://www.symfony-project.org/) and Flow3 (http://flow3.typo3.org/). I was using Yii in one of my projects and it worked really nice (altough I can't compare it to Rails or Django, because I have no experience with those).

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#28

Post by mootothemax » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:31 PM UTC

giulianob wrote: post #23

mootothemax wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction. I'm not sure if you're serious, but there are plenty of frameworks on a par with Rails at least (nb: I have zero experience with Django). At the enterprise level, there's Symfony or Zend: http://symfony.com/ http://www.zend.com/ If Rails is your thing, CakePHP s…

I've been using Cake since around 1.1 and it started with a decent base but was not very consistent. I just recently upgraded to 2.2 and I was extremely surprised with the amount of refactor and polish in order to make it a very consistent and powerful framework. It's really top notch nowadays. The performance is also better (used to have to do some "hacks" to get good performance before) but I'm not sure how it comp…

To be fair, the biggest problem I have with Cake is its ORM; it just feels unnatural to me. You ask for some data, and get back an associative array of values, which you can't do anything with but pass elsewhere. It just lacks a certain sense of OOPiness for me :)

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#29

Post by mootothemax » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:35 PM UTC

mjs wrote: post #25

maurimtl wrote: post #10

No matter how much PHP is improved upon, until there is a serious contender framework for it like Rails or Django, PHP will continue its route to extinction. Dinosaurs were once big and powerful. They dominated the landscape. They don't exist anymore.

PHP frameworks are pretty decent, and widely liked (if not loved). Though for some reason this doesn't apply to PHP applications: plenty of people dislike Drupal, or WordPress, or Magento. I'm not sure if there's an equivalent situation across languages--does Ruby or Python have loved frameworks and libraries, but unloved (though widely-used) applications?

Plenty of people dislike Drupal, or WordPress, or Magento

I can't speak for Drupal or Magento, but WordPress's codebase is a world of pain. I've written a few plugins in the past, and the WordPress code is simply hell to work with.

Re: What PHP 5.5 might look like

#30

Post by lysol » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 1:37 PM UTC

This is just a "would be nice" sort of post right? The main feature I'd want (list comprehensions) seems to be just a single programmer's guess at an upcoming feature with no real evidence.