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Pay Too Much for everything

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Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#51

Post by _delirium »

itmag wrote: post #36
lsc wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eh, I think that most of what you are paying for is, well, paying more. I mean, today, the kids are buying $400 jeans that are thick and tough (then they don't wash them, which sounds disgusting, but what do I know?) but, you know, at least they are probably durable. But during the first dot com? the expensive jeans were made of this super thin denim that was then pre-stressed at the factory; So yeah, in '99? if you…

Is it just me, or do jeans seem very cheap in America? In Sweden, a pair of regular Levi's jeans might cost you 1000 SEK, which is about $136. The designer jeans might cost 1500+ SEK.

Clothing in general seems much cheaper in the US than in Europe (I live in Denmark but buy most of my clothing when I visit the US). Seems like some mix of economic and cultural factors. Clothing shops in Denmark seem more commonly to be boutique and have higher-end stuff; e.g. Levi's would be the low-end here, whereas in the US Levi's is mid-market. And there don't seem to be discount shops like Ross. Taxes also make about a 25-30% difference: the EU has a ~10% import tariff on apparel (to protect the European fashion industry), plus Sweden's 25% VAT, so ~35% total taxes, versus a typical 5-10% sales tax in the US.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#52

Post by mmcnickle »

wanderr wrote: post #7

On the other hand, I've noticed, and others have observed as well, that generally more expensive items are more likely to have poor reviews on Amazon, for example. The most likely explanation is that higher prices lead to higher expectations, which are often hard to meet. Another point I'd like to make is that cheap stuff can be totally awesome, especially if you don't need or want it to last a lifetime. Example: IKE…

Though I imagine you could easily sell your armoire for close to what you paid for it (if indeed it hasn't actually gained value). I don't think there is a market for second hand IKEA furniture.

You have to weigh up between the money you lose in scrapping the IKEA apartment vs. the dead money tied up in quality furniture "inventory" and the relative difficulty in selling that to free up the funds again.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#53

Post by colomon »

I'm not sure I'd say this article is wrong, exactly, but it sure seems like all the arguments in it are very shallow. Yeah, I have my great-grandfather's pocketwatch, and it still runs. But it has required repairs that each cost significantly more than buying ten brand new cheap watches would have. It's the least reliable timepiece I own. And I hardly ever use it, because my cellphone is always with me and is considerably more accurate -- and is not the only heirloom I have from my namesake great-grandfather! Its main value to me is pure sentimentality.

I'm sure other watches were purchased by my other great-grandfathers; to the best of my knowledge, none of those watches survived to the present day. It might be because they only bought cheap watches. But it might also be that they bought expensive watches and those watches broke or got lost. Looking solely at what survived to today tells you very little about what was purchased yesterday.

And I'm sure my great-grandfather didn't buy the most expensive watch possible. If it had come down to the choice of buying a watch which cost $10 more, or saving that money to give me $200 today, I'd take the money!

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#54

Post by mmcnickle »

For me the most difficult thing about buying "quality" is the effort required in researching what the quality product is. It's been mentioned that price isn't always a good indicator, and the mainstream stores generally don't cater for people looking for quality.

For example, I'm buying a set of screwdrivers for a DIY job. I know I'll need screwdrivers for the rest of my life, I want to buy quality ones. I go to some big DIY store expecting a good range of screwdrivers. What I get is a selection of mickey-mouse screwdrivers (£5 for a set of 20) and some middle-of-the-road-but-overpriced screwdrivers (£20 for a set of 20). There is no "buy these and never buy another screwdriver again" set for £60-100.

You can get these, but it takes considerable effort to track them down.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#55

Post by debacle »

The problem is that the modern consumer cannot associate cost with quality. I usually buy the cheapest appliance I can find (microwave, coffee machine, lawn mower) because it has the fewest bells and whistles and is likely the only one I can fix myself.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#56

Post by drostie »

One key way in which the article is right on-the-money, so to speak, is to highlight the ridiculous frenzy that we go into to save disproportionately small amounts of money.

Our audience here is mostly programmers. Programmers should all know the golden rule of optimization: profile it first. Don't take it on intuition or faith that "this is what was slowing me down" unless you've measured it. The same principle applies in personal finance. Group together your expenses into some key logical categories -- "groceries", "tech", "rent", "retirement", "health", "nights out", and whatever else makes sense to you. Then add them up, do the maths. Know what you're spending and how it compares, and how the categories make up your monthly budget.

Frugality is generally quite good, but just like code, it's quite possible to overoptimize it into a time-sink.

Also, it's key that you see both the high-cost single-time expenses and the low-cost-but-everyday expenses and you get an idea for how they compare. Depending on how often you visit Starbucks, it might be a very good or very insignificant change to brew your own coffee at home; go on and measure it.

The single most surprising thing that I discovered about this process was that, even though I feel like I give money to beggars in the street "often" (i.e. whenever I see them and they ask) and give "a lot" (i.e. much more than is normally typical), the amount that I give actually works out to almost nothing on a monthly basis. Like, I'm poor and right now I have no proper employment (they don't pay you to do a Master's degree) and yet I can still afford to be generous to the people who are down on their luck, and it's just nothing when you compare it to the amount I'd save if I stopped drinking cola. I've got no income, but I'd still easily spend € 50 on food to throw a party for my friends, so long as it happens only about once a month, twice max.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#57

Post by lsc »

maxerickson wrote: post #44
lsc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Levi's are what I'd call 'designer jeans' or maybe low end designer jeans. I mean, uh, I might be using that word incorrectly, but yeah, they are very expensive compared to off-brand jeans of similar quality. (I believe you can mostly evaluate the quality of jeans with your eyes and your hands.) I dono exactly how much I'd pay for them here, just, well, probably more than I'm willing to pay.

Levi's are "Name brand" or something like that. The more expensive stuff in box stores are designer branded or something like that, not actually designer clothing. Macy's is probably the low end for actual designer stuff. And yeah, jeans are cheaper in the U.S., Levi's go for ~$40-$60.

ah. Then I am using the word incorrectly, and I have no experience with designer clothing. I guess it could be great? seems unlikely, but what do I know? The designer brand stuff sounds like what I'm talking about- it's clearly made to look a certain way, and long-term durability has little to do with it.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#58

Post by radarsat1 »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #22

The problem with this "buy for life" stuff is that how do you determine what is really a "buy for life" product rather than just an over-priced "brand?" For example, I could go out and buy a $200 pair of sunglasses but depending on where I buy them they can either be poor quality (e.g. fashion brands, sunglass hut, etc) or exceptional (e.g. fishing shops, sailing suppliers, workman-glasses, etc). You would expect rev…

Exactly. They just don't make things like they used to. I bought a $160 pair of boots once, thinking they would be great and last me a long time. They seemed solid, but they started leaking and cracking within a year. The next year I bought a $35 pair, which lasted the winter but sort of fell apart, and the next year I did the same again, which lasted three years.

The problem with paying more for higher quality is that there's little guarantee these days that price and quality are even correlated.

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