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Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

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Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#221

Post by returningfory2 »

morsch wrote: post #114

I agree it looks nice, but dressing up an airport in sustainable materials won't materially change the fact that a flight Boston - NYC (one-way!) blasts through ~0.7t[1] of CO2eq of your yearly budget of 1-3t[2]. It won't change the fact, but I'm sure it'll make it easier to forget or ignore. [1] https://co2.myclimate.org/en/portfolios?calculation_id=75775... [2] e.g. https://ieep.eu/publications/carbon-inequality-in…

I think it's a little bit misleading to casually drop a "yearly budget" like this, as if this is something we're currently following. In the US the average car emits 4.6t of CO2 per year [1]. If you really think we need to be following this yearly budget the implications on our society (including basically a ban on most car trips being currently taken) are extremely drastic.

[1] https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/greenhouse-gas-emissions-t....

Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#222

Post by directevolve »

audunw wrote: post #103
directevolve wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Portland, we also have the world’s tallest mass timber building, Carbon12. Mass timber is definitely structural here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon12

Not the tallest in the world. It was surpassed by Mjøstårnet in Norway and now Ascent in Milwaukee is the tallest. It’s not even remotely close to the height of these new buildings. It’s 26m, while the three tallest now are around 85m. Not to say it’s not impressive anyway. I applaud all the progress that has been made in replacing concrete with wood in large buildings. We should build more buildings like that (as lo…

Whoops, thanks for the correction on the height - tallest in the US, at least at the time it was built.

Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#223

Post by pmayrgundter »

morsch wrote: post #207
pmayrgundter wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found a more authoritative reference, from the Institute of Structural Engineers, which appears to be a major international organization [ISE]. The Embodied Carbon figure they use is 1.64kgCO2/kg timber as a rule of thumb [ISE-EC], and agrees with what I posted above For processing that yields built lumber, they account in stages, with % CO2 emissions added: A1) Raw Material Extraction, 20-25% A2) Transport to Faci…

The e is short for equivalent. https://chancerylaneproject.org/glossary/carbon-dioxide-equi...

thanks. Also forgot to note size difference between those airports.. DEN is #4 in the US with 38M passenger boardings/year, PDX #33 with 8M. So maybe 4x larger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_i...

Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#224

Post by BeetleB »

brailsafe wrote: post #11

It looks incredible and I'll take the first chance I get to go check it out, but the cynic in me bets that the international arrivals/layover/security check area is still just as dull and depressing as any other in the states. 2 people barely churning through a line of 150 stressed travellers that need to get to their next gate in 45 mins. I'd consider paying a fair bit more if I have it next time to not transit thro…

> I'd consider paying a fair bit more if I have it next time to not transit through if I can avoid it, always feels like hell. But that is admittedly very cynical and I'm sorry.

Surprised no one has pointed this out to you: Get Global Entry (it also comes with TSA Pre). You'll get to go in the fast TSA lines (no taking belt/shoes off). And international arrivals is a breeze. In fact, since I've got it, I've not had to wait in line even once at the immigration.

To give you an idea, I flew into Seattle this year. Went into the Global Entry area. Straight to a kiosk (no line at all). The kiosk took my picture, and figured out who I was and that was it. No customs declaration even (which was weird, what if I do have something to declare?).

So: No line. Kiosk takes a picture. Never took my passport out to show to anyone. Good to go.

In the old days, you'd have the kiosk scan your passport. And it'd ask if you're bringing in over $800 in goods (just yes/no - no need to itemize). But still, no line.

I don't know what they charge now, but it was $100 and lasts 5 years.

If you live close to the Canadian/Mexican border, consider getting NEXUS, which gives you the fast lane when driving to these countries. It's only $50, and it includes Global Entry and TSA Pre. Fantastic deal. The down side is the interview locations are only near the border.

Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#225

Post by dylan604 »

samcheng wrote: post #107
swalling wrote: post #66

The wood is pretty, but as someone who uses this terminal, the key improvement is that they raised the ceiling and significantly increased the amount of natural light. Here's a good photo of what it looked like before: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Portland_Internation... The major functional drawback is that wayfinding for both arrivals and departures is much worse. The overall flow of foot traffic is way…

Does any of the famous carpet still remain? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_International_Airport...

That wiki article reads much like a press release that I'm surprised that it has been allowed by the edit police

Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#226

Post by snakeyjake »

noisy_boy wrote: post #126

Beautiful. Also, what about fire hazard? Ctrl+F fire had zero matches.

Wood burns, but modern suppression systems increase the time to evacuate.

Fires don't usually (hell, hardly ever) start with the structure wooden or otherwise, they start with the things inside a structure: wiring, upholstery, drapery, etc.

By the time the fire gets large and hot enough to fuel itself on the structure all of the occupants are already dead due to carbon monoxide and/or hydrogen cyanide poisoning, so the flammability of the structure is almost irrelevant to occupants.

Even in Type 1 (all concrete) and Type 2 (concrete and steel) structures, burning the structure's contents will kill every occupant the same as a building made wholly or partially from wood. That's why large steel reinforced concrete buildings have self-closing doors, smoke extraction systems, and areas of refuge: the building being on fire won't kill you, the smoke from the burning carpeting and paint will.

With the Station Nightclub fire, it started at 11:07pm. The wooden structure was compromised to the point that the roof partially collapsed at 11:57pm. All occupants who had not escaped were dead well before the five-minute mark (11:12) when flames were seen exiting the doors and windows with NIST estimating that anyone still inside the structure 90 seconds after initial ignition was already dead.

50 minutes for the wood to burn, 90 seconds for the stuff inside to burn and kill you.

All of that being said, wooden structures are more dangerous to firefighters due to the risk of collapse long into the fire as suppression and/or search and rescue operations are occurring.

Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#227

Post by kjkjadksj »

closewith wrote: post #149
Perz1val wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The carbon emission is not a problem, the imbalance is. When we burn fossil fuels, we use carbon that was stored by dead plants being buried. We take carbon from the ground and dump it in the atmosphere. Plants take carbon from the atmosphere. If were to bury the equivalent amount of wood, we would be equal. Buried wood is not useful, but building from it also locks the carbon somewhere else that isn't an atmosphere.…

1 kilo of wood sequesters (temporarily for the most part) about 2kg CO2 equivalent, so for the GP's example of a single seat one-way from Boston - NYC, you'd need to sequester 350kg of wood. To sequester the ~800 Mt of CO2 emitted by aviation annually, you'd need to sequester about 400 billion kilograms of wood. So a finite but absurd amount.

Or you transition the airline industry to biofuels that are inherently carbon neutral.

Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#228

Post by Anechoic »

obelos wrote: post #214
swalling wrote: post #66

The wood is pretty, but as someone who uses this terminal, the key improvement is that they raised the ceiling and significantly increased the amount of natural light. Here's a good photo of what it looked like before: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Portland_Internation... The major functional drawback is that wayfinding for both arrivals and departures is much worse. The overall flow of foot traffic is way…

In addition to the great lighting, the new design also has much improved acoustics. The sound dampening is impressive. I can have conversations without straining to pick up words through the din of echoes, and the ambience has a nice warm sense of quiet.

FAA through the National Academies did a research study a few years ago [1] to provide guidance on improving the intelligibility of PA systems and also improving the overall acoustics of airport terminals. The idea is that this guidance would be used for terminal renovations and new construction. It looks like they may have put this to use! (I was on the team but not an author of the final report).

https://crp.trb.org/acrpwebresource2/improving-intelligibili...

Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#229

Post by kjkjadksj »

returningfory2 wrote: post #219
dig1 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, it's true. In my opinion, this is the hypocrisy of the modern 'green' agenda - we endlessly discuss pollution, yet we cling to the comforts of modern life, many of which cause even greater harm.

We can have it both ways. In ~50 years in the US, 99% of cars will be electric and 99% of electricity generation will be carbon negative. We can keep our comforts of modern life, like cars, while not damaging the planet. I accept there is not a story for air travel, yet.

Air travel industry is investing into a biofuel future

Re: Portland airport grows with expansive mass timber roof canopy

#230

Post by sojournerc »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #170
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #21

I just flew through there and saw the renovation for the first time, and it is an absolutely stunning transformation. Just incredible. I loved it. The whole thing. From the ceiling to the ticketing islands to the reworked security to the amphitheater style seating areas at the terminal exit where friends & family can await your arrival. It feels spacious, natural, functional, and hospitable.

> It feels spacious, natural, functional, and hospitable. If we want to solve the climate crisis, this is everything an airport should not be.

How does a cramped, artificial, non-functional airport solve the climate crisis?
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