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They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

kevinboone.me

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Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#121

Post by tgv »

azalemeth wrote: post #78

> "My Kawai stage piano has about forty different instrumental sounds, all produced from samples of real instruments. Apart from the string sounds: I believe it creates those by tormenting cats on Xanax." I don't quite know why but the author is really correct on synth strings. I've got a few friends who are fantastic semi pro strings players and the expressionism of their instruments are phenomenal -- I've sung with…

Synth strings sound like the original "string synthesizers" like the Solina String Ensemble (famously present in Jarre's Oxygene, albeit played on somewhat different instrument, and through a phaser). They tend to be scratchy, nasally, thin, etc.

Sampled strings cen be really convincing. Listen e.g. to https://vi-control.net/community/threads/phaeton-symphony-by...

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#122

Post by ciroduran »

amiga386 wrote: post #3

And if you want to hear it: 1. Download and install dexed: https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/ 2. Download and unpack https://hsjp.eu/downloads/Dexed/Dexed_cart_1.0.zip 3. In dexed, load the cartridge "Original Yamaha/DX7 ROM/ROM1A" 4. Load the preset E PIANO 1 and play some Whitney Houston 5. Load the present BASS 1 and play the intro to Danger Zone. Listen to how note velocity affects the attack!

Dexed is great!

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#123

Post by amiga386 »

ciroduran wrote: post #122
amiga386 wrote: post #3

And if you want to hear it: 1. Download and install dexed: https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/ 2. Download and unpack https://hsjp.eu/downloads/Dexed/Dexed_cart_1.0.zip 3. In dexed, load the cartridge "Original Yamaha/DX7 ROM/ROM1A" 4. Load the preset E PIANO 1 and play some Whitney Houston 5. Load the present BASS 1 and play the intro to Danger Zone. Listen to how note velocity affects the attack!

Dexed is great!

It is!

Also, something I have only just noticed... if using the on-screen keyboard, the lower down the key you click, the harder the note is struck.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#124

Post by nine_k »

coldtea wrote: post #106
nine_k wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the point of making piano patches that sound realistic, except as a tour de force? It's sort of a "Pierre Menard, author of Quixote" sort of thing. What I'd be interested in is how viable it is for producing intetesting, distinctive sounds, and tweaking them to your liking in a comprehensible way, not poking blindly.

> But what's the point of making piano patches that sound realistic, except as a tour de force? It's sort of a "Pierre Menard, author of Quixote" sort of thing. Because via modelling (not necessarily FM-based) they can be made more realistic or more expressive than pre-recorded samples (see Pianotte or SWAM for examples). Also you can then make the piano tonal characteristics as you want them (instead of confined to…

This is true, but this likely has to be done once, by the manufacturer? Or maybe several times, in search of perfection. But likely it's not what every musician is expected to do. Also, doing this should still be easier than building your own physical grand piano :)

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#125

Post by rideontime »

alterom wrote: post #48
coldtea wrote: post #18

> With hindsight, the DX7 and its ilk look like a weird diversion in the path of musical progress. Operator synthesis makes no logical sense. It became popular because we had the capability to do digital sound generation, but lacked the technology to do it in a comprehensible, systematic way. So the DX7 enjoyed huge popularity for a few years, before fading into obscurity. That's a weird take. I mean "Operator synthe…

They also didn't get why FM synthesis was so appealing, in spite of being difficult to understand for the common musician. It's in the tone . Acoustic instruments respond in a complex way to the variation in strength of input: when you strike the key in the piano faster, pluck a string harder, or blow air info the saxophone stronger, you don't merely get a louder sound: the harmonic content , the timbre of the sound…

Thank you for defending the DX7's honor so vociferously so that I didn't have to!

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#126

Post by nine_k »

ruined wrote: post #66
nine_k wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the point of making piano patches that sound realistic, except as a tour de force? It's sort of a "Pierre Menard, author of Quixote" sort of thing. What I'd be interested in is how viable it is for producing intetesting, distinctive sounds, and tweaking them to your liking in a comprehensible way, not poking blindly.

>what's the point of making piano patches that sound realistic, except as a tour de force? pianos are enjoyable, but expensive and very heavy

Patches / parameter sets / whatever else you call the way to describe it are way more compact and should be much less expensive, shouldn't they? I honestly would expect a competent (if not exquisite) grand piano to be among presets in a good synthesizer.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#127

Post by onemoresoop »

coldtea wrote: post #93
alterom wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also didn't get why FM synthesis was so appealing, in spite of being difficult to understand for the common musician. It's in the tone . Acoustic instruments respond in a complex way to the variation in strength of input: when you strike the key in the piano faster, pluck a string harder, or blow air info the saxophone stronger, you don't merely get a louder sound: the harmonic content , the timbre of the sound…

> the speakers are not loud Well, let's be clear: the speakers are just for noodling. Nobody who performs would use the built-in speakers of such a keyboard, not even street performers. - the only exception is the big-ass speakers in digital home pianos, and still those are only for home use.

It’s a very portable synth, the small factor, the included speakers and 6xAA battery operation give it playability on the go. I for one use it at home due to limited available space, I use the power adapter and ignore the built in speaker.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#128

Post by thuuuomas »

ajxs wrote: post #11

If people are interested in the DX7's technical details, I've done some work reverse-engineering it, and some of Yamaha's other FM synths: https://ajxs.me/blog/tag/DX7.html Ken Shirriff has also done some amazing work analysing the DX7's sound chips: https://www.righto.com/2021/11/reverse-engineering-yamaha-dx... A really awesome documentary on the DX7 by MadFame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXt_NXjc7oY There are…

There’s a decent supercollider implementation as well

https://github.com/everythingwillbetakenaway/DX7-Supercollid...

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#129

Post by alterom »

coldtea wrote: post #93
alterom wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also didn't get why FM synthesis was so appealing, in spite of being difficult to understand for the common musician. It's in the tone . Acoustic instruments respond in a complex way to the variation in strength of input: when you strike the key in the piano faster, pluck a string harder, or blow air info the saxophone stronger, you don't merely get a louder sound: the harmonic content , the timbre of the sound…

> the speakers are not loud Well, let's be clear: the speakers are just for noodling. Nobody who performs would use the built-in speakers of such a keyboard, not even street performers. - the only exception is the big-ass speakers in digital home pianos, and still those are only for home use.

>Well, let's be clear: the speakers are just for noodling.

Just for noodling. And trying it in a store. And playing with friends (you don't need much to play along an acoustic guitar). Or playing and singing in a room, or next to a campfire.

All of these applications don't require big cabinets; beefing up the speakers to 5W (and adding a bit more bass response) would do a lot for the reface DX.

>Nobody who performs would use the built-in speakers of such a keyboard, not even street performers.

Well, that's exactly my point (though I've yet to see a street performer with a Reface DX, other than myself, that is).

The portable amps I do use with the DX can be easily built into the body (I have the keytar strap, and even duck taping a micro amp to the keyboard gives enough firepower for street performances).

The built-in speakers on 1980s keyboards were much louder.

>- the only exception is the big-ass speakers in digital home pianos, and still those are only for home use.

This is not quite true.

Check out the small amps coming out these days, that make Roland Cube Street look huge in comparison.

Blackstar Fly is a respectable example; there are many others.

There is no good reason why something like that can't come built into the keyboard.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#130

Post by pantulis »

relaxing wrote: post #114
fuhsnn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>poorly simulating a broad range of superior instruments Nothing touches FM's velocity responsiveness until physical modeling, it sounds lame when you get used to it, but the same thing is true to the romplers that replaced it. >Relating to it's influence on 80s music 80s is quite broad, claims like this basically just showed which artists the writer prefer. Personally, it's PPG and Moog.

> Nothing touches FM's velocity responsiveness ??? You can make any synthesis velocity responsive. Oberheim had it, there were Rolands in the DCO era. Vangelis mastered it on the CS80. The DX7 simply made velocity sensitive keys widely available, and critically Yamaha baked velocity sensitivity into every patch.

Not forgetting aftertouch.
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