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Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

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Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#741

Post by DanielHB »

jaco6 wrote: post #732
DanielHB wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking the same thing the other day. Like how much of the US GDP is tied to their suburb-living car-dependent lifestyle. What percentage of the GDP is all that infrastructure (sewage, heating, power plants, power transmission, car production, road maintenance)? Sure that create jobs, especially lower-skilled jobs which are important for society. But at the same time they didn't really need to exist. It feels…

Sewage, heating, and power plants are included in GDP figures. Government spending is a GDP subheading. And such things certainly create value. I derive significant value every day from my warm, insulated, suburban bathroom. Furthermore, your assertion that the defense industry doesn’t provide value is questionable. Until you can convince the various state governments of the world to unite in a global superstate, def…

I haven't phrased it very well, I meant to say _american_ style suburbs are very... wasteful on resources, land and capital. European cities have suburbs as well, they are just usually 4-6 store tall buildings close to metro stations with row-houses and detached houses a bit farther out.

Detached houses are not the main means of living for most people in Europe, but if you want one you can still get one, it just costs more than an apartment (especially in colder countries).

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#743

Post by fransje26 »

narski wrote: post #377
sangnoir wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But is the majority of the population thriving? Looking at the numbers: low unemployment, strong consumer spending, average income increasing at a rate higher than inflation, I'd say the majority is doing better than most years. They might not feel that way though, and we've been in a continuous vibes-cession since COVID.

>Looking at the numbers I'm reminded of this excerpt from 1984: But actually, he thought as he re-adjusted the Ministry of Plenty's figures, it was not even forgery. It was merely the substitution of one piece of nonsense for another. Most of the material that you were dealing with had no connexion with anything in the real world, not even the kind of connexion that is contained in a direct lie. Statistics were just…

> All one knew was that every quarter astronomical numbers of boots were produced on paper, while perhaps half the population of Oceania went barefoot.

In the theme of the day: "Your coverage has been denied, due to [insert nonsense]", while profiteering from record profits in the billions.

Immense economical value has been "produced", benefiting no-one but the very few.

From the New-York Times [1]:

    The company’s profits rose on his watch, jumping to more than $16 billion last year from $12 billion in 2021.  But amid the growth, the company and its parent also attracted scrutiny from lawmakers and regulators who accused them of systematically refusing to authorize health care procedures and treatments.
[1] https://archive.is/cD5vT#selection-877.135-881.197

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#744

Post by valval »

hunglee2 wrote: post #590

GDP is a measure of the marketisation of society. If I go visit my grandma over the weekend, my activities do not register on GDP. If I hire a care assistant for $800 per day to do so, that's $800 to national GDP. The encroachment of the market into society correlates with record levels of mental and physical health crisis. US life expectancy has declined over the past three years, even as 'the economy' has surged ah…

I also like the example where if you break someone’s window and they fix it for $300, that’s at least an extra $300 in GDP.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#745

Post by piker »

My experience as a expat in London is that new things aren’t really being built in Europe today, and that fact is greenwashed over to keep the people here from recognizing how miserable the infrastructure and housing are compared to modern North American counterparts.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#746

Post by ljf »

ak_111 wrote: post #705
jack_riminton wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that countries who don't want to compete on the marketisation of everything will lose out eventually. In your example of elderly care, an extended family in Italy may care for their own grandmother (and they'd probably live longer). But the market in Italy isn't so bouyont so the younger generation can't get high paying jobs and move out even if they wanted to. The high spending and marketisation in th…

You highlight and try and predict the eventual problems of non-marketisation but you don't seem and try and do the same to the eventual problems of marketisation. These things are difficult to predict, but already for example we notice some problems with ultra-marketisation in the UK where house prices are now 10-12x average annual salary (it used to average 6-8x for the last two decades), and all the social strife t…

Not disagreeing with your central points - but average UK salary is now £35k and the average house price is £289k - therefore house prices are currently 8.25 times the average salary.

Regional variations will make this far worse in many popular and coastal towns - but the average is 8.25 times in 2024.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#747

Post by bastloing »

yurishimo wrote: post #634
bastloing wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I know is doing well and looking forward to the next 4 years. Just look at the stock market, which anyone can invest in. I started back when I was making $4 an hour, now doing very well.

Not everyone can invest in the stock market… at least not in a way that is helpful. Sure, I might be able to put $20/mo in if I’m working poor and over a few years it will double if I’m lucky. $4/he starting wage makes you around my parents age (50+) so I’m guessing you easily earn six figures now since you hang out on HN. The crowd here does not represent poor people very well (which is fine!) but you can’t extrapol…

If anything it's easier now than ever to invest in stocks. Online trades, no commissions, and fractional shares. When I started I had to pay a broker to do the trades. And still against those odds somehow it worked.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#748

Post by juki »

SideQuark wrote: post #537
ricardobayes wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the population is definitely thriving. Although, does that reflect in higher quality of life? Some statistics say no. The best quality of life is where there is good access to quality healthcare, education, clean air and water, culture, and low crime. When taking into account all the above, somewhat surprisingly, Austria and Switzerland come as top places to live. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_quality_of…

The most recent report ranking country quality of life has US at #3 https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2024/09/10/new... And the US is massive and diverse, with many states larger than those other countries. If you look at quality of life across US states, it’s likely the best states (think New Hampshire versus Mississippi) would outrank all those countries, since the average across all states ranked #3.

You're misreading that. The survey ranks USA as #3 overall, but #22 on quality of life. The overall ranking is mainly thanks to the agility (#1), power (#1), entrepreneurship (#2) and cultural influence (#3). The other categories aren't that good: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/united-states

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#749

Post by svnt »

tsimionescu wrote: post #654
INTPenis wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very good point because in my country elder care is free. Daily visits by an assistant is on the municipality. We're not a leader in GDP, but we take care of our citizens, whether they be sick or old.

That is not the point GP was making. The assistant you mention is still paid by the municipality, so they show up in GDP numbers just as much as if you paid them yourself. What doesn't show up in GDP numbers are cultures where people take their elderly relatives into their own homes and care for them themselves. Same as hiring someone to look after your kids, or taking them to day care, shows up in GDP; while having…

Except the municipality is not run for a profit, and can benefit from economies of scale, so the difference in GDP contribution for the same event could be an order of magnitude lower.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#750

Post by sofixa »

roncesvalles wrote: post #415
spiderfarmer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is number one in quality of life and that’s all that matters to me. If we work just hard enough to maintain and maybe even improve it, other countries can do their pissing contest.

>The EU is number one in quality of life I feel like this is only the case for a very narrow demographic - the young, bicycle-riding, sex-having mid-20s college grad still trying to figure out their calling in life while living frugally without a care. It really sucks being 40 and still earning like 57k EUR or whatever.

> It really sucks being 40 and still earning like 57k EUR or whatever.

Why? If that's enough money for the quality of life you want for the cost of living you have, what does the number matter?

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