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Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

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Re: Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

#141
post #134

I feel like this article is more of a "Here's all the things I think about perfect pitch and my journey with music" Maybe I took the title too literally. As someone who wants to gain perfect pitch (and still feels mildly distant from this ability) one thing I can say has been the most helpful: * Get a string instrument * Strum the strings * Try to tune the first string by ear * Once you think you have it, check it ag…

Why would you measure in Hz and not cents [1]? 5 Hz is going to be larger practical pitch difference at G3 (196 Hz) compared to E5 (659 Hz). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(music)

Tell me you don't understand how the ear perceives music without telling me you don't understand.

Don't be pretentious man, we are tuning guitars and violins not prepping the kids for Juliard.

The same as how you use hz to talk about a specific note, your ear understands hz when listening. Cents are just ratios of intervals subject to a given scale. Do you think we are so bad we are messing up A3 as being close to B5?

How about we use Just Intonation or 12-TET? But then should we base it on 5 limit[0] or Pythagorean[1] tuning.

See where being a pedant gets you.

[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-limit_tuning

[1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning

Most tuners work in hz. Your ear works in hz. That's all the thought that went into it.

If any of us are consistently getting to within a hertz I'll consider switching to cents.

Re: Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

#142

I suppose I have perfect pitch, in that I can more often than not: * aurally identify key signatures * aurally identify chords * sing a given note on command It wasn't until I was into my early twenties that I could do this. For me, the single biggest stepping stone was building the connection between what I could hear in my head from a song that I remember clearly with the underlying music theory. Specifically, buil…

wow you just made me realize I have some degree of perfect pitch. I can sing moonlight sonata's G#C#F# on command.

Re: Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A random human won't sing off the cuff with their tonal center magically quantized to one of the twelve keys in our modern western tuning (Equal Temperament). Why is that relevant? Whatever pitch they pick would fall into one of the 12 buckets, even if it isn't precisely the correct pitch.

It's not called "in-the-ballpark" pitch, it's called perfect/absolute pitch. Being up to a quarter tone off is a large error in music. Thinking of pitch in terms of 12 buckets is not musically useful. The vast majority of music is based off consonance where being even a few hertz off means unpleasant dissonance. TLDR: Thinking of pitch as 12 buckets is mostly irrelevant.

Less than 12 to my ears.

I always observed that the number of random non-musicians who can get it right using the "major" handful of those twelve keys is remarkable enough to be considered.

Since those are the only 12 notes so many people have been hearing from every direction for so long, and truly confined to not more than a few of the major keys that are "dominant" as a result of modern instrumentation, it gets ingrained in the psyche and the notes are almost memorized by frequency. With nothing in-between, so that's what they reproduce without any training. Or can have a more sensitive ear for out-of-tune notes than an actual music student of a number of years.

I agree, it doesn't happen magically.

It just happens about any time naturally.

Re: Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

#144
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you measure in Hz and not cents [1]? 5 Hz is going to be larger practical pitch difference at G3 (196 Hz) compared to E5 (659 Hz). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(music)

Tell me you don't understand how the ear perceives music without telling me you don't understand. Don't be pretentious man, we are tuning guitars and violins not prepping the kids for Juliard. The same as how you use hz to talk about a specific note, your ear understands hz when listening. Cents are just ratios of intervals subject to a given scale. Do you think we are so bad we are messing up A3 as being close to B5…

…the ear perceives pitch logarithmically (not linearly: this is why you double the pitch when you go up an octave, instead of adding some constant, and this is why we use semitones and not hertz to talk about what we hear), hertz is linear so the "meaning" of 1 Hz is inconsistent at different points in the range of pitches, cents are logarithmic (just like semitones or tones) and don't suffer from this problem, that's all gp was saying

Re: Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

#145
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you measure in Hz and not cents [1]? 5 Hz is going to be larger practical pitch difference at G3 (196 Hz) compared to E5 (659 Hz). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(music)

Tell me you don't understand how the ear perceives music without telling me you don't understand. Don't be pretentious man, we are tuning guitars and violins not prepping the kids for Juliard. The same as how you use hz to talk about a specific note, your ear understands hz when listening. Cents are just ratios of intervals subject to a given scale. Do you think we are so bad we are messing up A3 as being close to B5…

Mechanical strobe tuners work in Hz. Many "digital" electronic tuners are likely to be calibrated in Hz but display cents of deviation to the user.

One way I look at it when tuning two A4's to match 440, cents are always a fraction of where you are at the time. So a 439 vs 440 is by definition 1 Hz off and here that's a little less than 0.25%. Once you get the beat note below 1 per second (actually not often so easy) you're within 1/4 cent. At this range of pitch.

You can detect the cents by ear that way and when the deviations are minimized as optimally as you can get for the particular instrument mechanics, that one instrument is going to sound about as good as you can get.

When you get down to the bass notes like A1 at 55 Hz (conveniently annoying when accompanied by the hum from either 60 Hz American power transformers as well as overseas 50 Hz) a beat note of 1 per second means you are still about 2 cents off, or 8x the deviation you had at 440. IOW at the bass end you will have to aurally integrate the beat-note signal itself for about 8 times as long as you would for the 440 tuning fork, in order to make sure the beat is not occurring any more often than once per 8 seconds, for you to be as equally in tune in both of those octaves. A practical example would be a 440 tuning fork boldly serving as reference, and starting with a proper gage string a little flat at 435. Five beats per second difference is some serious flutter and anybody can turn the knob slightly and slowly until it's within 1 beat per second and in about 5 to 10 seconds of listening confirm it's pretty well identical, and you're within 1/4 cent.

But for ear tuning of bass like this you need to listen for about 40 to 80 seconds to reach equivalent confirmation.

You're so right though, no matter how you do the math, the physics don't change :)

I have not seen any electronic tuners having AI and whether or not they would beat a human, regardless, like regular tuners they would need to be given way more time to "integrate" the signal coming in from bass notes than most musicians expect. At least 30 to 60 seconds of clean detection. With no interference from other undampened notes, background noise, or stray vibrations for the input mic or contact tuners either. Even more challenging on notes that decay within a 30 to 60 second comparison period, where a good tuner can crumble even though it seems so miraculous when it's not bass.

Not to mention limited bass frequency response of transducers which tend to roll off bass like any other imperfect audio component.

Re: Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

#146
post #124
post #92

Careful what you wish for. • Live music is often slightly out of tune. If the piano at a small club where you are playing a one night gig is slightly low your band is probably going to tune to that piano. I've read of vocalists with perfect pitch saying that this drove them nuts. • Perfect pitch often drifts as you age. I've read of people who had to stop listening to music when they got into their 50s or 60s because…

Also: * "Concert pitch" of A=440Hz is not universal. * 12 tone equal temperament is not universal. * Analog playback systems often run at slightly incorrect speeds. * Some instruments are difficult or impossible to tune, so the tuning will vary with temperature. Nobody is going to tune a pipe organ in a drafty church every time the weather changes. * DJ mixes rely on playing tracks at different speeds to allow for sm…

> DJ mixes rely on playing tracks at different speeds to allow for smooth transitions between tracks of different tempo[0], which changes the tuning.

And with digital players now, you can speed it up but digitally alter the sound back to it's original pitch.

Re: Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

#147
I've yet to find a use for perfect pitch other than it's a cool parlor trick. I'm not a 100% perfect as I don't really practice the skill, and I have a hard time separating my relative pitch from absolute pitch. Although from time to time when the band looks at you and asks what key was that in it's fun to have an answer.

Instead, I think interval identification is the most useful skill. Hearing two notes after each other and being able to name the interval is relevant to every genre of music and live performance, so it can be played back on whatever instrument is in front of you.

The next most useful skill (in my opinion) is chord decomposition: hearing a chord and being able to identify the component notes, relative to the tonic. Diads are useful enough for guitar players/bassists, but triads are super useful for piano players, vocalists, or other polyphonic instruments.

Re: Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

#148
post #146
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: * "Concert pitch" of A=440Hz is not universal. * 12 tone equal temperament is not universal. * Analog playback systems often run at slightly incorrect speeds. * Some instruments are difficult or impossible to tune, so the tuning will vary with temperature. Nobody is going to tune a pipe organ in a drafty church every time the weather changes. * DJ mixes rely on playing tracks at different speeds to allow for sm…

> DJ mixes rely on playing tracks at different speeds to allow for smooth transitions between tracks of different tempo[0], which changes the tuning. And with digital players now, you can speed it up but digitally alter the sound back to it's original pitch.

You could do that 20 years ago, but now it sounds way better. You won't notice live anymore, but it's still audible. To be honest, pitching them up with them sounding "higher" is actually better most of the time with House, Trance ... Dubstep/Trap ... keeping the original pitch is generally better.

Re: Learn perfect pitch in 15 years

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me you don't understand how the ear perceives music without telling me you don't understand. Don't be pretentious man, we are tuning guitars and violins not prepping the kids for Juliard. The same as how you use hz to talk about a specific note, your ear understands hz when listening. Cents are just ratios of intervals subject to a given scale. Do you think we are so bad we are messing up A3 as being close to B5…

…the ear perceives pitch logarithmically (not linearly: this is why you double the pitch when you go up an octave, instead of adding some constant, and this is why we use semitones and not hertz to talk about what we hear), hertz is linear so the "meaning" of 1 Hz is inconsistent at different points in the range of pitches, cents are logarithmic (just like semitones or tones) and don't suffer from this problem, that'…

Now that you are caught up with the rest of us, read my response.

Am I saying I don't understand or am I saying I understand but the response is too nitpicky for me and what I feel is reasonably acceptable by the average person.

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