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They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

kevinboone.me

41–50 of 225 posts

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#41
post #18

> With hindsight, the DX7 and its ilk look like a weird diversion in the path of musical progress. Operator synthesis makes no logical sense. It became popular because we had the capability to do digital sound generation, but lacked the technology to do it in a comprehensible, systematic way. So the DX7 enjoyed huge popularity for a few years, before fading into obscurity. That's a weird take. I mean "Operator synthe…

>And of course even vintage DX7s go for a quite high price in second+ hand market...

Everytime I read about some cool old synth, I check how much they cost and they are always hundreds or thousands of dollars, I think DX7s are like $500+.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#42
DX7 will always have a special place in my heart being the spiritual predecessor to my favorite soft synth, FM8. If you want a modern FM synthesis experience, FM8 has been that for over a decade. Low CPU usage, incredibly versatile, really easy to work with in the mix (FM synthesis tends to be easy to shape and layer spectrally).

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#43

> And once we have sampling technology, there’s little point using computational techniques to make the once-novel sounds of earlier synthesizers: we can just sample the instruments themselves You can't tweak the parameters of a filter envelope if it's "printed" to a sample. You might sample a variety of different envelopes, but there's still fundamentally no way you can get the sound of the filter attack gradually i…

You can totally tweak the filter and amp of samples. Don’t believe be - run a sample with the LP turned all the way down :)

If the sample is the master output from the synth then the filter won't be the same.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#44
post #35

> They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard Greg Kihn Band Breakup Song with the unforgettable lyric, "they don't write 'em like that any more" did not use the DX7 at least because it was not available in 1981, but the keyboardist Gary Philips was known to use Minimoog, Prophet-5, Wurlitzer, Rhodes and Yamaha pianos with the band. In 1983 Gary Philips was an early adopter of the DX7. They don't…

I didn't know how to play the keyboard but the DX7 was seen in so many music videos in the 80s that it became an object of desire for me. If I were going to learn how to play the keyboard, it was going to be on the DX7! To me it was the Lamborghini of keyboards. I had zero understanding of synths or even basic music theory. I just knew all the cool bands had a DX7 and I wanted to be like the cool guys on saw on MTV. We eventually got some cheap consumer keyboard from K-Mart which was completely forgotten by New Years Day.

As an aside, I find it's a bit weird how overlooked the Greg Kihn Band is in current 80s culture. It might not have been as big as Michael Jackson or Chicago but they were quite well known. Weird Al even did a parody of one of their songs but their cultural impact seems to have not survived as well as other acts of that era, which is a pity.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#45
Yamaha basically still makes the DX7 in a modernized form in the Reface DX. It just has 4 operators instead of 6, but it can create various waveshapes whereas the DX7 can only create sine waves so it requires more operators to achieve the more complex shapes.

Also, Korg makes the Volca FM, which is actually a clone of the original Yamaha engine and you can actually directly load DX7 patches into it.

>There remains a niche interest in generating instrumental sounds using mathematical modelling, but almost all digital music production these days is based on sampling.

Yeah...that's just completely untrue.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#46
post #35

> They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard Greg Kihn Band Breakup Song with the unforgettable lyric, "they don't write 'em like that any more" did not use the DX7 at least because it was not available in 1981, but the keyboardist Gary Philips was known to use Minimoog, Prophet-5, Wurlitzer, Rhodes and Yamaha pianos with the band. In 1983 Gary Philips was an early adopter of the DX7. They don't…

I didn't know how to play the keyboard but the DX7 was seen in so many music videos in the 80s that it became an object of desire for me. If I were going to learn how to play the keyboard, it was going to be on the DX7! To me it was the Lamborghini of keyboards. I had zero understanding of synths or even basic music theory. I just knew all the cool bands had a DX7 and I wanted to be like the cool guys on saw on MTV.…

As an aside to an aside, Greg Kihn became a DJ for a classic rock station in the Bay area that I used to listen to. Even then I only know one of his songs.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a MODX and although it’s so damn powerful when it comes to sound design - each of the 16 parts can have 8 layers each, it’s a lot of work to do anything with it. I’ve seen piano patches that sound REALISTIC because in 8 layers, you can model the hammer, the initial string hit, the cabinet echo, string resonance, and a whole lot of other timbres… but it takes SO MUCH EFFORT. So unless you’re a /real/ sound desi…

I would be extremely interested in a video or article describing that kind of patch (one with a physical analogue/interpretation). Are you referring to something specific?

You might be interested in physical modeling synthesis. It's got a long history. Here's a good run down: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/signal/what-is-physical-model...

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#48
post #18

> With hindsight, the DX7 and its ilk look like a weird diversion in the path of musical progress. Operator synthesis makes no logical sense. It became popular because we had the capability to do digital sound generation, but lacked the technology to do it in a comprehensible, systematic way. So the DX7 enjoyed huge popularity for a few years, before fading into obscurity. That's a weird take. I mean "Operator synthe…

They also didn't get why FM synthesis was so appealing, in spite of being difficult to understand for the common musician.

It's in the tone.

Acoustic instruments respond in a complex way to the variation in strength of input: when you strike the key in the piano faster, pluck a string harder, or blow air info the saxophone stronger, you don't merely get a louder sound: the harmonic content, the timbre of the sound changes as well.

Analogue synthesis struggled accomplishing this. The classic analog synth would have an envelope generator ("ADSR") controlling the loudness of the tone, and another, most commonly, controlling the filter (the thing that makes the synth do a wowowow sound on the same note), but responsive fading and evolution of the harmonics wasn't readily available.

On the Yamaha DX7, it was built into the core idea of FM synthesis.

You don't know it when you hear it, you know it when you play it: the way the keyboard responded to the touch was alive, magical.

You didn't need to rely on the modulation wheels and joysticks and knobs to vary the timbre as you play. You could simply play the keyboard.

On my Yamaha Reface DX (which overcomes the drawbacks of FM user interface), I can easily make a tone whose character (not loudness! - or not just loudness) changes when I simply play harder. It's like having several instruments at once at your disposal, blending between them on the fly.

It's that playability that makes FM make sense — and it was what other digital synthesis technologies went for, too. Roland's "linear arithmetic", vector synthesis, and M1's multisampling all explored that area — but they came after DX7.

What makes FM synthesis unique is the heavily non-linear response of the tone to the dynamics. At worst, it's unpredictable, but once you figure out where the sweet spots are in the parameter space, you get a tone like nothing else. A bell that's also a string orchestra. A guitar with a soul of the saxophone, but not mistaken for either; an identity all of its own.

Yamaha DX7 heavily leaned into this aspect in instrument's design, via providing additional parameters that controlled the sensitivity of operators to velocity depending on where on the keyboard you are, so that the lower tones would have a different character from higher ones.

The "diminished brilliance" the author writes about was likely that — i.e., the author not figuring out how FM sound design works, which they openly admitted. It was matter of taste of whoever made the presets; without programming those curves in, the higher notes can easily sound screeching.

The point, again, was that the instrument wasn't merely responsive in a way that analogue synths couldn't dream of, but that the way in which it was responsive, tone-wise, was programmable, and varied not just from patch to patch, but across the scale and velocity range.

Again, think about how plucking different strings on a guitar harder produces a different variation in tonal response. Each string has its own character.

This is the soul of the mathematical idea of FM synthesis: that the tone evolution should not merely be controlled by time passing (as it is on most analogue synths, via envelope generators and LFO's), and not by knob twiddling (modulation wheels, knobs, sliders, joysticks,...) — but by playing the instrument itself.

And on a keyboard, what you really play with is where on the keyboard you strike a key, and how fast.

Yamaha DX7 allowed the player to vary the timbre by playing the instrument, with both hands, by having all tone generators depend on these two variables in a programmable, non-linear, interesting way.

FM synthesis of Yamaha DX7 therefore can't be separated from the physical keyboard it shipped with. The way the tones felt as you played them were determined by the response curves which simply don't map in the same way to a different keyboard.

The fact that the DX7 was a digital synth obscured the fact that it was a very analog instrument in that way; that to get a truly good FM preset, you need to tune it to the keyboard response (i.e. velocity curves), and that involves the analog components.

It's also for this reason that DX7 only has membrane buttons, and no knobs or sliders. It didn't need them. The 60 keys were your knobs and sliders, the means to control the tone.

That's why the ePiano on the DX-7 was on 60% of the new releases. It didn't merely emulate the Rhodes (which, by all means, wasn't a rare instrument).

What it did was it gave keyboard players a way to play with the tone of their instrument while playing the instrument, something the Rhodes would have a more limited range for, as the variation in tone response was constrained by how similar the actual metallic forks that made the sound were to each other, and how similar the hammers are across the octaves — and the digital DX7 didn't have that limitation.

It also gave the people used to playing the synth with one hand (to be able to tweak the sound with the other) the freedom to play truly polyphonically, and use the keyboard itself to control the tone dynamics.

Playing it was a liberating experience, and it still is, because while intricate multi-sampling can also give you that effect (at no less difficulty, mind you, even if you have the samples!), FM does it differently.

The musicians didn't need to be mindful of all that; the absolute majority (Brian Eno expected) were outright oblivious to why and what made DX7 the instrument that you had to have.

You just felt it.

And yes, new FM synthesizers keep coming. Because emulating acoustic instruments is not just easy with sampling these days, it also isn't enough. You can just hire someone to play the real instrument, after all.

You need a bit more than that to craft a distinctive sound — especially a new one.

Liven XFM, Korg Opsix, Arturia Minifreak all go boldly where manmade sound didn't go before, and these are just three novel FM synthesizers from this decade.

Reface DX came out less than 10 years ago; and its FM engine is different from DX7 (as is the UX — you can finally change the tone while playing it with live controls).

And for all the talk of how FM is old, I've yet to see someone not be captivated by the ePiano patch that comes stock on the Reface DX when I let them play it when I bring the instrument around with me on trips (which I often do).

Current developments in the controllers (like what ROLI is doing) will allow all the existing sound generation techniques to shine in new ways, including FM.

But I think it's the physical package of the keyboard, the algorithm, and the presets tuned to the combination of the two is what made the DX7 such a success.

A new FM instrument could easily be a hit with these factors, particularly if they don't skimp on including built-in speakers and making the presets sound great on them. FM truly shines when all the pieces are aligned in a performer's instrument.

Reface DX comes close to that point, but the presets it ships with are more of an engine demo than sounds to make music with, the speakers are not loud, and the mini-keys (which I love!) were a turn-off for many people — because in the Internet age, people would judge a machine without actually playing it, and that's the only way to understand what's so damn special about FM synthesis.

It's the way you feel when you play it.

A sound demo simply won't get that across.

Re: They don't make them like that any more: the Yamaha DX7 keyboard

#50

If you want a professional Yamaha FM synth from the 1980’s, the V50 is a bargain. It was the last of the DX’s and is essentially two DX9’s with a sequencer and a drum machine. For clarity, the later 4 op FM chips, have multiple wave forms and provide a sonic space as powerful as the earlier sine wave only six Op chips…they are not identical but equivalent.

Also of note, the SY77 which bridges the best of Yamaha FM with AWM2 rompler tech.
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