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Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

deepmind.google

191–200 of 436 posts

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#191

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

If stories (and AAA games in general) are bland in games is due in large part to how expensive are to produce. Risk tolerance is low. If game assets are cheap to generate you’ll see small teams or even solo developers willing to take more creative risks

Counter point: you’d see a corresponding exponential increase in QA labor, and just like with the web, Steam will be absolutely flooded with slop.

So I see the most likely outcome is a lot of dogshit and Steam being forced to make draconian moves to protect the integrity of the store.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#192
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you do basic chatgpt prompts in late 2024 asking for dynamic story telling, sure, you'll get what you said. it's super dismissive to think that wont get better over time, or that even with the tools today, that you can't get dynamic and interesting stories out of it if you provide it with the proper framework

> it's super dismissive to think that wont get better over time When did we start thinking this way? That things HAVE to get better and in fact to think otherwise is very negative? Is HN under a massive hot hand fallacy delusion?

Lots of people want that AI grift money and need to be pollyanna true believers to convince others that models that don't know truth are useful decision makers

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#193
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the Unreal Engine killer. Give it five years. We need to calm down with the clickbait-addled thinking that "this new thing kills this established powerful tested useful thing." :-) Game developers have been discussing these tools at length, after all, they are the group of software developers who are most motivated to improve their workflow. No other group of software developers comes close to gamedevs' eff…

> gamedevs' efficiency requirements These models won't need you to retopo meshes, write custom shaders, or optimize Nanite or Lumen gameplay. They'll generate the final frames, sans traditional graphics processing pipeline. > The 1 thing required for serious developers is control Same with video and image models, and there's tremendous work being done there as we speak. These models will eventually be trained to lear…

> Why do you think that's true? > These will get faster and they will get controllable.

Brother, you're preaching to the choir. I've been shilling generative tools for gamedev far harder than you are in your reply. :-)

But I'm just relaying to you what actual gamedevs working and writing code right now need and for the foreseeable future for which projects have been started or planned. As Mike Acton says, "the problem is the problem".

> These techniques can already mimic the physics of optics better than 80 years of doing it with math.

I encourage you to talk to actual gamedevs. When designing a game, you aren't trying to mimic physics: you're trying to make a simulation of physics that feels a certain way that you want it to play. This applies to fluid dynamics, lighting/optics, everything.

For example, if I'm making a saling simulator, I need to be able to script the water at points where it matters for gameplay and game-feel, not simulate real physics. I'm willing to break the rules of physics so that my water doesn't act or look like real water but feels good to play.

Movement may be motion captured, but animation is tweaked so that the characters control and play in a way that the game designer feels is correct for his game.

If you haven't designed a game, I encourage you to try to make a simple space invaders clone over the weekend, then think about the physics in it and try to make it feel good or work in an interesting way. Even in something that rudimentary, you'll notice that your simulation is something you test and tweak until you arrive at parameters that you're happy with but that aren't real physics.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games bring billions of real people joy. This is sitting in some lab at Google inaccessible to anyone.

Is your argument that them sharing research progress and demos doesn't benefit anybody purely because we can't immediately play around with them? I feel like sharing early closed-source blog-posts is part of the research process. I'm sure someone in this thread has thought of a use case that the Google team missed. Open/closed source arguments here feel premature IMO.

It's not part of the research process. Being part of the search process would involve a publication and sharing code/data/results/methods. It's not research unless it can be verified by peers.

This is just a marketing fluff piece that does not benefit anyone and is ego stroking at best.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If stories (and AAA games in general) are bland in games is due in large part to how expensive are to produce. Risk tolerance is low. If game assets are cheap to generate you’ll see small teams or even solo developers willing to take more creative risks

Counter point: you’d see a corresponding exponential increase in QA labor, and just like with the web, Steam will be absolutely flooded with slop. So I see the most likely outcome is a lot of dogshit and Steam being forced to make draconian moves to protect the integrity of the store.

Seems like there's already a lot of slop on steam and I really doubt it will be difficult for quality content to be highlighted even if the amount of games increases 1000x or more

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#196
post #136

Forget video games. This is a huge step forward for AGI and Robotics. There's a lot of evidence from Neurobiology that we must be running something like this in our brains--things like optical illusions, the editing out of our visual blind spot, the relatively low bandwidth measured in neural signals from our senses to our brain, hallucinations, our ability to visualize 3d shapes, to dream. This is the start of addin…

> Glasses that make the world 20% more pleasant to look at. When AR glasses get good enough to wear all day, I've really been wanting to make a real-life ad blocker.

hallucinogenics are available right now.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#197

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

I love that almost all the responses to your question are, "No! Bad idea!"

It's a great idea. We want more than an open-world. We want an open-story.

Open-story games are going to be the next genre that will dominate the gaming industry, once someone figures it out.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#198

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

If stories (and AAA games in general) are bland in games is due in large part to how expensive are to produce. Risk tolerance is low. If game assets are cheap to generate you’ll see small teams or even solo developers willing to take more creative risks

Or you'll see a flood of shit that's impossible to filter.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#199

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

I think that's a bit of a trap. It's not impossible, but by default we should expect it to make games less fun . The better you make this infinite narrative generator, the more complicated the world gets and the less compelling it gets to actually interact with any one story. Stories thrive by setting their own context. They should feel important to the viewer. An open world with infinite stories can't make every sto…

> I think that's a bit of a trap. It's not impossible, but by default we should expect it to make games less fun.

I'd say AAA games have been on track of "less fun" for at least half a decade. So this sounds like a natural next step.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#200

I doubt it, but it would be interesting if they recorded Stadia sessions and trained on that data (... somehow removing the hud?), seems like it would be the easiest way for them to get the data for this.

Seems somewhat likely to me. They probably even trained a model to do both frame generation and upscaling to allow the hardware to work more efficiently while being able to predict the future based on user input (to reduce perceived latency). Seems like Genie is just that but extrapolated much further.
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