Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

deepmind.google

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 436 posts

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#171

Post by empath75 »

erulabs wrote: post #128

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

It only looks like a video game because video game footage is plentiful and cheap.

Now, imagine training it on thousands of hours of PoV drone footage from Ukraine, and then using that to train autonomous agents.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#172

Post by empath75 »

aithrowawaycomm wrote: post #58

It is jaw-dropping and dismaying how for-profit AI companies use long-standing terms like "world model" and "physics" when they mean "video game model" and "video game physics." Or, as you can plainly see, "models gravity" when they mean "models Red Dead Redemption 2's gravity function, along with its cinematic lighting effects and Rockstar's distinctively weighty animations." Which is to say Google is not modeling g…

> It is jaw-dropping and dismaying how for-profit AI companies use long-standing terms like "world model" and "physics" when they mean "video game model" and "video game physics." Or, as you can plainly see, "models gravity" when they mean "models Red Dead Redemption 2's gravity function, along with its cinematic lighting effects and Rockstar's distinctively weighty animations." Which is to say Google is not modeling gravity at all.

That's because it's using video game data for training footage because it's cheap and easy to generate. It would not be simulating video game gravity if it was training on real world video inputs.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#173

Post by mrandish »

echelon wrote: post #33
simonw wrote: post #13

Related recent project you can try out yourself (Chrome only) which hallucinates new frames of a Minecraft style game: https://oasis.decart.ai/ That one would reimagine the world any time you look at the sky or ground. Sounds like Genie2 solves that: "Genie 2 is capable of remembering parts of the world that are no longer in view and then rendering them accurately when they become observable again."

This blows Decart's Oasis (which raised $25 million at $500 million valuation) and World Labs (which raised $230 million in complete stealth) out of the water. Google is firing warning shots to kill off interest in funding competing startups in this space. I suspect that in 6 months it won't matter as we'll have completely open source Chinese world models. They're already starting to kill video foundation model compa…

> Chinese companies are not the leaders in the space, so they're salting the earth with insanely powerful SOTA open models to prevent anyone from becoming a runaway success.

While it would be interesting if Chinese companies were releasing their best full models as an intentional strategy to reduce VC funding availability for western AI startups, it would be downright fascinating if the Chinese government was supporting this as a broader geopolitical strategy to slow down the West.

It does make sense but would require a remarkable level of insight, coordination and commitment to a costly yet uncertain strategy.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#174

Post by youoy »

sangnoir wrote: post #125
suddenlybananas wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really not the avenue for house-hold robots. Interacting with the actual physical world is very different from creating a video game.

> Interacting with the actual physical world is very different from creating a video game The major difference being the former scales very poorly for generating training data compared to the latter. Genie 2 is not even a video game and has worse fidelity that video games, the upside is it probably scales even better than video games for generating training scenarios. If you want androids in teal life, Genie 2 (or si…

> The training pipeline will be: raw video -> Genie 2 -> game engine with rules -> physical robot

One of those arrows is not like the others

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#175

Post by YetAnotherNick »

xnx wrote: post #41
justlikereddit wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> the squealing carcass called Gemini Have you used Gemini? It seems every bit as good as ChatGPT.

In my experience Gemini has more knowledge but hallucinates lot more. Reasoning ability seems comparable. But for some reason it just doesn't feel good chatting with Gemini as with Claude or ChatGPT.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#176

Post by smusamashah »

Its so much like my lucid dreams where world sometimes stays consistent for a while when I take its control. It's a strange feeling seeing computer hallucinating a world just like I hallucinate a world in dreams.

This also means that my dreams will keep looking like this iteration of Genie 2, but computer will scale up and the worlds won't look anything like my dreams anymore in next versions (its already more colorful anyway).

I remember image generation use to look like dreams too in the beginning. Now it doesn't look anything like that.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#177

Post by visarga »

miltonlost wrote: post #145
erulabs wrote: post #128

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

> I want a Minecraft that tells intriguing stories with infinite quest generation. Procedural infinite world gen recharged gaming, where is the procedural infinite story generation? You're not gonna get new intriguing stories from AI which only regurgitates what it's stolen. You're going to get a themeless morass without intention. I also find it amusing how your example to Siri uses one of the oldest pieces of liter…

Actually, all you need to do is to apply structured randomness to get diversity from a LLM. For example in TinyStories paper, a precursor of the Phi models:

> We collected a vocabulary consisting of about 1500 basic words, which try to mimic the vocabulary of a typical 3-4 year-old child, separated into nouns, verbs, and adjectives. In each generation, 3 words are chosen randomly (one verb, one noun, and one adjective). The model is instructed to generate a story that somehow combines these random words into the story

You can do the same for generating worlds, just prepare good ingredients and sample at random.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#178

Post by krainboltgreene »

93po wrote: post #157
miltonlost wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want a Minecraft that tells intriguing stories with infinite quest generation. Procedural infinite world gen recharged gaming, where is the procedural infinite story generation? You're not gonna get new intriguing stories from AI which only regurgitates what it's stolen. You're going to get a themeless morass without intention. I also find it amusing how your example to Siri uses one of the oldest pieces of liter…

if you do basic chatgpt prompts in late 2024 asking for dynamic story telling, sure, you'll get what you said. it's super dismissive to think that wont get better over time, or that even with the tools today, that you can't get dynamic and interesting stories out of it if you provide it with the proper framework

> it's super dismissive to think that wont get better over time

When did we start thinking this way? That things HAVE to get better and in fact to think otherwise is very negative? Is HN under a massive hot hand fallacy delusion?

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#179

Post by w10-1 »

netdevphoenix wrote: post #46
mdrzn wrote: post #6

Wow.. I can't even imagine where we'll be in 5 or 10 years from now. Seems that it's only "consistent" up to a minute, but if the progress keeps the same rate.. just wow.

Progress is not linear. For all we know, in 2027 things will slow down to a virtual halt for the next 30 years. Look at how much big science progressed in the first 20 years of the 19th century/20th century and look how little it has progressed in the first 20 years of this century. We are on the downlow compared to the last centuries and even if you look at crisp or deep learning, they are not as impactful NOW as le…

crispr variants have not particularly improved treatments.

But DNA sequencing and biologics have revolutionized medicine and changed lives.

Also, the computer as phone took it from 100M's mostly business users buying optical disks to 3+B everyday people getting regular system updates and apps on demand accessing real-time information. That change alone far outweighs the impact of anything produced by advanced physics.

As a result we, as developers, now have the power to deliver both messages and experiences to the entire world.

Ideas are cheap, and progress is virtually guaranteed in intellectual history. But execution is exquisitely easy to get wrong. Genie 2 is just Google's first bite at this apple, and milestones and feedback are key to getting something as general as AI right. Fingers crossed!

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#180

Post by [deleted] »

erulabs wrote: post #128

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN