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Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

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Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#141
post #13

Related recent project you can try out yourself (Chrome only) which hallucinates new frames of a Minecraft style game: https://oasis.decart.ai/ That one would reimagine the world any time you look at the sky or ground. Sounds like Genie2 solves that: "Genie 2 is capable of remembering parts of the world that are no longer in view and then rendering them accurately when they become observable again."

However the architecture they describe really sounds like it should still have that issue. I doubt they really solved it.

Which is a big problem for the agent-training use case they keep reiterating on the website. Agents are like speedrunners: if there is a stupid exploit, the agent will probably find and use it. And for Oasis the speedrunning meta for getting to the nether is to find anything red, make it fill the screen, and repeat until the world-generating AI thinks you look at lava and must be in the nether

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#142

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

we have reliable infinite story generation in PvP multiplayer. if the matchup is fair, every game can be different and exciting. see chess

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#143

Forget video games. This is a huge step forward for AGI and Robotics. There's a lot of evidence from Neurobiology that we must be running something like this in our brains--things like optical illusions, the editing out of our visual blind spot, the relatively low bandwidth measured in neural signals from our senses to our brain, hallucinations, our ability to visualize 3d shapes, to dream. This is the start of addin…

I can't wait for Schizophrenic automobiles

There is a fleshed out realisation of this in Cyberpunk 2077. The cab AI is called Delamain

> Delamain was a non-sentient AI created by the company Alte Weltordnung. His core was purchased by Delamain Corporation of Night City to drive its fleet of taxicabs in response to a dramatic increase in accidents caused by human drivers and the financial losses from the resulting lawsuits. The AI quickly returned Delamain Corp to profitability and assumed other responsibilities, such as replacing the company's human mechanics with automated repair drones and transforming the business into the city's most prestigious and trusted transporting service. However, Delamain Corp executives underestimated their newest employee's potential for growth and independence despite Alte Weltordnung's warnings, and Delamain eventually bought out his owners and began operating all aspects of the company by himself. Although Delamain occupied a legal gray area in Night City due to being an AI, his services were so reliable and sought after that Night City's authorities were willing to turn a blind eye to his status.

https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Delamain_(AI)

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#144
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the compute needed to create this particular demo is prohibitive for any real-world use case, but it's an impressive proof of concept. Someday it will run on a phone tho.

Not at all. If you look at the publications in the world model space, this can be achieved by any pre-seed company. You just need lots of data, but that's easy to gather in an automated fashion with scripting against game engines. These are basically learning game playthroughs. There are some folks on Discord training a playable Super Smash Bros Melee world model. There's a large corpus of annotated Smash Bros gamepl…

i upvoted you depsite some downvotes because i would like to hear your argument on why this isn't expensive. if it takes a high end consumer video card that costs $1-2k something like 10 seconds to generate a single low res image, presumably effectively real-time video combined with user inputs would be extremely, extremely demanding and therefore expensive. i mean basic napkin math for 25FPS is 250 GPUs, which is half a million dollars in hardware, and around $20/hour in electricity alone

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#145

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

> I want a Minecraft that tells intriguing stories with infinite quest generation. Procedural infinite world gen recharged gaming, where is the procedural infinite story generation?

You're not gonna get new intriguing stories from AI which only regurgitates what it's stolen. You're going to get a themeless morass without intention.

I also find it amusing how your example to Siri uses one of the oldest pieces of literature when you also tire of stories heard a thousand times before.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#146

For all that this is lauded as a "prototyping tool", it's frustrating to see Genie2 discarding entire portions of the concept art demo. The original images drawn by Max Cant have these beautiful alien creatures. Large ones floating, and small ones being herded(?). Genie2 just ignores these beautiful details entirely: > That large alien? That's a tree. > That other large alien? It's a bush. > That herd of small creatu…

That's an odd thing to complain about. Focusing on such a minor issue feels overly critical at this stage, like anything less than a pixel perfect 3D world representation of the source image is unacceptable. Insulting? Come on... Max Cant works at DeepMind so I'm sure he's fine.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#147
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the squealing carcass called Gemini Have you used Gemini? It seems every bit as good as ChatGPT.

I benchmark these for my job. Just did one a couple days ago, fortitously. Gemini Advanced at $20/month is the worst of any commercial model. One constant over the last 6 months is it is indistinguishable from Llama 3.1 8B with search snippets.

I'm very curious about this. How do you benchmark them?

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#148
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> the squealing carcass called Gemini Have you used Gemini? It seems every bit as good as ChatGPT.

I second the opinion that Gemini is a great tool to work with. The recent updates have made it an even better experience. I use Gemini Flash, and whether I'm working with freeform or code, it's awesome.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#149

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

I think that's a bit of a trap. It's not impossible, but by default we should expect it to make games less fun.

The better you make this infinite narrative generator, the more complicated the world gets and the less compelling it gets to actually interact with any one story.

Stories thrive by setting their own context. They should feel important to the viewer. An open world with infinite stories can't make every story feel meaningful to the player. So how does it make any story feel meaningful? I suppose the story would have to be global, in which case, it crowds out the potential for fractal infinite storylines - eventually, all or at least most are going to have to tie back to the Big Bad Guy in order to feel meaningful.

Local stories would just feel mostly pointless. In Minecraft, all (overworld) locales are equally unimportant. Much like on Earth, why should you care about the random place you appeared in the world? The difference is that on Earth you tend to develop community as you grow and builds connections to the place you live, which can build loyalty. In addition, you only have one shot, and you have real needs that you must fulfill or you die forever. So you develop some otherwise arbitrary loyalties in order to feel security in your needs.

In Minecraft there's zero pressure to develop loyalty to a place except for your own real-life time. And when that becomes a driving factor, why wouldn't you pick a game designed to respect your time with a self-contained story? (Not that infinite games like Minecraft are bad, but they aren't story-driven for a good reason).

Now, a game like Dwarf Fortress is different because you build the community, the infrastructure, the things that make you care about a place. But it already has infinite story generation without AI and I'm not sure AI would improve on that model.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#150

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

Ok - you got me.

That’s actually a use case I can understand- and what’s more I think that humans could generate training data (story “prototypes”?) that somehow (?) expand the phase space of story-types

Ironic though - we can build AI that could be creative but it’s humans that have to use science and logic because AI cannot?

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