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Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

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Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#61

Post by adamc »

WalterBright wrote: post #47
didibus wrote: post #17

I'm never able to get to the "so what?" with these. Productivity growth sounds nice, but then it mentions that there's more inequality, higher cost of living, and more workers struggle in the US than other developed countries. How do I reconcile this? They make a point that eventually the other countries' economies would shrink and won't be able to afford those benefits, but also the US doesn't have those benefits ev…

> How do I reconcile this? I'm curious why you care that some people have more money than you do? If you want mo' moolah: 1. upgrade your job skills 2. minimize spending (like get a roommate, eschew restaurant food, buy a used car) 3. invest the money you save If you really want to make big money: 1. start your own business

I thought the question was "why should I care about productivity if it doesn't necessarily make my life better?". The article didn't really make the case that average workers were benefiting from this.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#62

Post by WalterBright »

kiba wrote: post #57
EZ-E wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrible place to be poor more like. Being poor is not enviable in any country, but you're better supported in some countries compared to others. Obviously this comes at a cost for the economy as a whole. At some point you need to think about what kind of society you want to live in.

I wouldn't necessarily make the assumption that welfare support "costs" the economy as a whole. It's really expensive to support homeless population since they use up critical important resources such as emergency care, compared to just giving them a home. They may recover faster and become a productive member of society again. For sure, it costs real dollars in a national budget, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing…

If you give people free food, free housing, and free medical care, who needs to work?

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#63

Post by roncesvalles »

roenxi wrote: post #14

This is an interesting take, because it contrasts with GDP PPP [0] which is suggesting that America is in fact being overtaken by its rivals although it has managed to outpace the EU. China is claiming to already be ahead and India is well on track to gain absolute economic ascendancy relative to the US. And I expect that Asia is going to start developing some serious military muscle on the back of that because they…

PPP is an increasingly irrelevant notion in a globalized, digital, and immigration-friendly world. An iPhone or a Toyota Corolla costs the same in the US as it does in China. There is no remarkable arbitrage with real estate either - you're paying for the location and everything that comes with it. There is no secret city where the rent is low, there are plenty of well-paying jobs, you enjoy freedom of speech and can be reasonably sure the milk isn't tainted with melamine (tangent: due to strict US immigration policies and corporate RTO, the Bay Area comes close).

PPP suffers from the same problem that "basket of goods" CPI suffers from in that it doesn't account for differences in quality:

- of course a car costs more today than it did in 1980, it's a far better car

- of course a loaf of bread costs more in California than it does in India - I have certain guarantees about the pesticide levels in the wheat, the accuracy of the labeling, and my ability to seek damages from the legal system in case I chip my tooth on a stone, that I don't have in India

At best, PPP tells you something about the differences in cost of labor. But labor isn't everything you buy.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#64

Post by Jensson »

dachworker wrote: post #46
spiderfarmer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is number one in quality of life and that’s all that matters to me. If we work just hard enough to maintain and maybe even improve it, other countries can do their pissing contest.

Where does this notion come from? Many Europeans cannot even afford proper AC in summer and heating in winter.

Of course they can afford it, its just a cultural difference.

> Many Europeans cannot even afford proper AC in summer and heating in winter.

Basically nobody lacks heating in winter, that one is made up. The thing people lack is AC and its just because people aren't used to it so they don't see it as a need.

Edit: Saying this is like saying people can't afford shelter in USA, it is true and there are many homeless but it describes a tiny fraction.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#65

Post by dlcarrier »

rich_sasha wrote: post #48

One thing this article doesn't touch on is the soaring government debt, which is now really quite big: 120%, and IIRC if you add municipal debt, it's more like 140%. That is high. It also seems like much of the recent growth has been fueled by this debt. It's unclear how this is going to unwind. America can afford, apparently, to run their deficit hot, but not forever and without limit. So at some point they have to…

My theory is that other countries' trade is so closely tied to the US Dollar that when the Federal Reserve prints money it's not just diluting the US Dollar but all currencies. The US is effectively taxing the world, to pay for its own spending.

As evidence that the US Dollar plays a large enough role for this to be the case, half of the banks bailed out in the TARP program were foreign to the US (https://www.europeaninstitute.org/index.php/ei-blog/106-augu...) and trading is US Dollars.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#66

Post by Jensson »

CalRobert wrote: post #6
shiroiushi wrote: post #5

The US is a great place to make a lot of money if you're lucky and successful, but a terrible place to retire.

How so? Healthcare? FIRE seems much more attainable in the US

> How so? Healthcare? FIRE seems much more attainable in the US

Much easier in Europe, go work in Switzerland or some high paying country then go retire in a low cost area with healthcare.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#67

Post by Jensson »

stephen_g wrote: post #54
croes wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the US economy is built on debt

All economies are built on debt... It's basically how money works...

No that is not how money works, it is one way money can work but it isn't how money works. Many economies are debt free, because there is no reason to go into debt to have money.

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#68

Post by willtemperley »

ragebol wrote: post #36
spiderfarmer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is number one in quality of life and that’s all that matters to me. If we work just hard enough to maintain and maybe even improve it, other countries can do their pissing contest.

Quality of life costs money, and if we're not competitive, sooner or later that money will run out.

Exactly and the fact that, for example, West and Central Africa are waking up [1] to the fact that France has been scamming them out of untold billions, probably trillions is going to shift power significantly.

This is happening now. Senegal are following Chad in cutting ties with French military.

[1] https://theconversation.com/cfa-franc-conditions-are-ripe-fo...

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#69

Post by WalterBright »

didibus wrote: post #58
WalterBright wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do I reconcile this? I'm curious why you care that some people have more money than you do? If you want mo' moolah: 1. upgrade your job skills 2. minimize spending (like get a roommate, eschew restaurant food, buy a used car) 3. invest the money you save If you really want to make big money: 1. start your own business

Not sure I understand how you're reconciliating it? Maybe I'm missing the link you are making with caring or not about other people being richer than oneself, how is that relevant here? What I'm asking is more, what conclusion should I take from the article?

Isn't caring about inequality mean complaining about people having more money than oneself?

Re: Why America's economy is soaring ahead of its rivals

#70

Post by Jensson »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #53
croes wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the US economy is built on debt

Europe has massive debts, too, and growing. But this is a downward spiral. Edit: Average government debt-to-GDP ratio in the EU was around 60% from 2000 to 2008. It is 88% now and worse in many major countries. No lie here...

> Europe has massive debts, too, and growing

This is a lie, take Sweden's debt for example it has been going down the past 20 years. Most of Europe doesn't see increasing debt, USA is an outlier.

https://tradingeconomics.com/sweden/government-debt-to-gdp#:...

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