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MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

nbcnewyork.com

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Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#91

Post by HPsquared »

bobthepanda wrote: post #86
HPsquared wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely it's just a dash cam with a button and maybe some kind of comms module. There are many mass-market dashcams with a 'record' button that saves a time period before and after pressing the button, it's pretty standard usage. The only new thing is sending the video on, and making sure the time/location are correct (many cameras do this via GPS already - standard usage). I'm not seeing what is so expensive or uniqu…

A bus goes through many more miles and hours of operation than the vast majority of cars. Most cars are parked for the vast majority of the day, and sometimes in covered garages. And how long do those cameras last? The feds only fund bus replacements at twelve years or 500,000 miles.

Unlike most other parts of the bus, this part isn't mission-critical and presumably is easy to replace. It doesn't need to be made to the same durability standard as, say, the engine.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#92

Post by woodruffw »

potato3732842 wrote: post #82
woodruffw wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I suppose it could happen in that case. There's no public evidence of any such occurrence, however; most of the city's truck traffic is big companies, and I don't see why any driver would risk prison time to stave off an idling ticket that Amazon, etc. is just going to negotiate down in court anyways.

You live in different worlds. Pretty much everyone who depends on small business in NYC hates the government and law enforcement of NYC and sees them as revenuers (Louis Rossman covers this in detail on his youtube channel, to mention someone who's respected here on HN). The idea that someone would help them for a cut is incredibly disgusting to most people who live in this world. It's incredibly foreseeable that som…

I've lived here my whole life, and I know a fair number of people who drive trucks (and cabs, and do food delivery) for a living. Again: it's possible, but I have never heard of anybody even getting a beatdown over this, much less getting killed.

> Like I said, the risk ain't worth my life.

Then don't take it! But I don't think the evidence supports treating the average truck driver as a psycho who's one idling ticket away from vehicular manslaughter.

Edit: as a case in point: Kuntzman[1] has been going around the city fixing car - including plenty of cop car - license plates for years. I think the worst he's gotten is verbal abuse, and he's doing something much more overt and aggressive.

[1]: https://www.curbed.com/2023/12/congestion-pricing-gersh-kunt...

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#93

Post by rgovostes »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81
rgovostes wrote: post #20

When I lived in California years ago I had a custom 2-letter plate. I gave the car to a relative who switched its registration to another state. Years later, I got a toll demand from an express lane around LA that had a false positive scan of my plate number—someone else’s partially obscured maybe? I argued the car was registered elsewhere and wasn’t driven in CA, and they denied the appeal. I asked for evidence but…

> with no appeals process Wouldn't it have to hit a traffic court at some point?

There is an appeals process but it first requires me submitting proof that I wasn't driving in the express lane to them, rather than forcing them to produce any evidence (which, if they even had a photo, would immediately exonerate me). They would not accept my statement that the car was re-registered out of state and then sold, even though the CA DMV records confirmed that the registration expired years prior.

If I did submit proof and they still denied it, I could request an administrative review, but first I have to pay the fine as a deposit, which would be refunded to me if I won.

Of course, all of the reviewers work for the organization whose scanners falsely accused me in the first place. There is no independent traffic court for this expressway.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#94

Post by sidewndr46 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #67
sidewndr46 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not much different from anything involving the legal system. If everyone charged with anything ranging from a fine to a criminal misdemeanor just requested either a trial or an administrative hearing, the system would vanish overnight. I did once discover that in at least one jurisdiction criminal charges were not guaranteed a jury trial, only a bench trial was given. The judge in that circumstance is the prosec…

>If everyone charged with anything ranging from a fine to a criminal misdemeanor just requested either a trial or an administrative hearing, the system would vanish overnight. That's not a valid excuse for "due process" being completely unfair and placing unreasonable burdens on the accused.

I don't understand the point you are making in this comment

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#95

Post by sidewndr46 »

llamaimperative wrote: post #63
vundercind wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_... TL;DR the Sixth's right to jury trial doesn't apply for criminal charges carrying less than sixth months maximum sentence—even if there are multiple such charges that may add up to more than that. Gonna go out on a limb and guess that plenty of US jurisdictions don't voluntarily pay extra money to make those jury trials if they aren't forced to.

Wow! TIL

If you read the same link more, you'll discover it doesn't apply at all under the age of 18

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#96

Post by sidewndr46 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #89
BobaFloutist wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but it's not worth the parent's time.

> it's not worth the parent's time I’m saying it might be. Being the lead plaintiff in even a threatened class can be lucrative. That said, in their shoes, I’d write a letter to my state AG and copy my state legislative electeds and be done with it.

I'm not really sure suing a bankrupt company that is immune from such procedures under state law is a good idea. What am I going to do, pursue a RICO case against them?

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#97

Post by jmspring »

jeffbee wrote: post #80
jmspring wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think the mechanized scofflaws are bad, as a cyclist, maybe self propelled two wheelers are quite random in the laws they do/do not follow.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists...

I didn't saw about quantity, just cyclists can be unpredictable - I bike several thousand miles a year. When I used to commute to San Francisco, my order of concern on the road was cyclists, muni, cabs, everyone else.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#98

Post by dpkirchner »

potato3732842 wrote: post #56
vundercind wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_... TL;DR the Sixth's right to jury trial doesn't apply for criminal charges carrying less than sixth months maximum sentence—even if there are multiple such charges that may add up to more than that. Gonna go out on a limb and guess that plenty of US jurisdictions don't voluntarily pay extra money to make those jury trials if they aren't forced to.

Frankly I think that's bullshit. If it's not worth paying for the trial for it's not worth prosecuting as criminal.

Agreed, and I'd go further than that: we shouldn't be charging prisoners "rent" or for food or whatever. If it's important enough to imprison someone then we the taxpayers should cover the cost.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#100

Post by Schiendelman »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #85
potato3732842 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There needs to be some mechanism by which the people can check the process. An elected official would likely suffice.

> elected official would likely suffice For adjudicating traffic tolls? Why do you think election is going to produce a good outcome? Some jurisdictions would collect zero revenue while others would refuse any appeal on principle.

You're thinking one step on the line. If a jurisdiction refused appeals regularly, the elected official doing that would become more likely to get replaced.
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