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MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

nbcnewyork.com

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Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#71

Post by 015a »

jeffbee wrote: post #61
potato3732842 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know someone who deflated the tires on their Jeep to get around a violation ticket for bumper height (i.e. the kind of thing they only ever enforce as a pretext for fishing). He asked the cop to re-measure. Cop was confused and mad.

It's amazing how mechanized scofflaws believe they are uniquely above the law, and that dodging law enforcement is a personal victory. I think it's a sad commentary on the deterioration of public behavior in America (and this is almost exclusively an American thing ... in Germany a lifted Jeep would be seized and destroyed on its first day on the road.)

Oh yes, I'm sure that would be normal in, checks notes, oh you've gotta be joking, Germany, a country certainly not known for a recent proclivity for dangerous authoritarianism.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#72

Post by woodruffw »

potato3732842 wrote: post #64
czinck wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, that's already a thing in NYC. NYC shares the ticket revenue for illegally idling vehicles with the reporter, and so some people have made 6 figures in one year reporting idling vehicles[1]. There was a push to get a similar provision in a recent bill about illegal parking in bus and bike lanes, but they ended up just allowing citizen complaints with no bounty payout. [1] https://www.nbcnewyork.c…

That guy's continued breathing is a testament to how good NYC's surveillance dragnet is or at least how good people think it is. I can't imagine doing what that guy does at the scale he does. Like you can only wrong so many people until you run across the guy for whom you are the final straw. Though I guess that might be why he mostly runs a ring these days instead of being on the street.

Nobody is going kill someone for reporting idling trucks. The drivers of these trucks don't care; the company tells them to idle and swallows the fine (typically bartered down in bulk).

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#73

Post by potato3732842 »

woodruffw wrote: post #72
potato3732842 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That guy's continued breathing is a testament to how good NYC's surveillance dragnet is or at least how good people think it is. I can't imagine doing what that guy does at the scale he does. Like you can only wrong so many people until you run across the guy for whom you are the final straw. Though I guess that might be why he mostly runs a ring these days instead of being on the street.

Nobody is going kill someone for reporting idling trucks. The drivers of these trucks don't care; the company tells them to idle and swallows the fine (typically bartered down in bulk).

If you go around doing it you'll make a name for yourself. Couriers, ubers, delivery drivers, they all have social media. Eventually you'll run across the guy who "wrong pedals" you.

I wouldn't risk it.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#74

Post by cute_boi »

woodruffw wrote: post #24

I think the title and lede overstate this a bit: it was 2 bus lines (out of >300 in the NYCT system), and of the ~3800 violations issued, under 25% were incorrect. That's still unacceptable, of course. But the proximate error here appears to not be with incorrect recognition, but with training/monitoring data accidentally being redirected to enforcement.

even 1% would be unacceptable and should always be manually reviewed. It is too much hassle to report etc..

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#75

Post by potato3732842 »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #69
potato3732842 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person on the other end of the phone has near complete discretion and the process is still not auditable or verifiable to you. They could make whatever they want up and you wouldn't know. You probably got lucky and called in a month when budgets weren't tight and they weren't trying hard to squeeze out every penny so they just waved it instead of giving you the runaround.

> The person on the other end of the phone has near complete discretion and the process is still not auditable or verifiable to you. Does every administrative process have to go to a plebiscite or a Judge to be valid? Where do you draw the line?

There needs to be some mechanism by which the people can check the process. An elected official would likely suffice.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#76

Post by woodruffw »

potato3732842 wrote: post #73
woodruffw wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is going kill someone for reporting idling trucks. The drivers of these trucks don't care; the company tells them to idle and swallows the fine (typically bartered down in bulk).

If you go around doing it you'll make a name for yourself. Couriers, ubers, delivery drivers, they all have social media. Eventually you'll run across the guy who "wrong pedals" you. I wouldn't risk it.

The idling law in question is for commercial vehicles, meaning trucks. It has nothing to do with couriers or delivery drivers.

(The city has other, unincentivized, idling laws for other classes of vehicles.)

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#77

Post by potato3732842 »

woodruffw wrote: post #76
potato3732842 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go around doing it you'll make a name for yourself. Couriers, ubers, delivery drivers, they all have social media. Eventually you'll run across the guy who "wrong pedals" you. I wouldn't risk it.

The idling law in question is for commercial vehicles, meaning trucks. It has nothing to do with couriers or delivery drivers. (The city has other, unincentivized, idling laws for other classes of vehicles.)

I mean delivery like box truck, not delivery like doordash.

I was imprecise to lump them all together like that.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#78

Post by woodruffw »

potato3732842 wrote: post #77
woodruffw wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idling law in question is for commercial vehicles, meaning trucks. It has nothing to do with couriers or delivery drivers. (The city has other, unincentivized, idling laws for other classes of vehicles.)

I mean delivery like box truck, not delivery like doordash. I was imprecise to lump them all together like that.

Sure, I suppose it could happen in that case. There's no public evidence of any such occurrence, however; most of the city's truck traffic is big companies, and I don't see why any driver would risk prison time to stave off an idling ticket that Amazon, etc. is just going to negotiate down in court anyways.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#79

Post by jmspring »

jeffbee wrote: post #61
potato3732842 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know someone who deflated the tires on their Jeep to get around a violation ticket for bumper height (i.e. the kind of thing they only ever enforce as a pretext for fishing). He asked the cop to re-measure. Cop was confused and mad.

It's amazing how mechanized scofflaws believe they are uniquely above the law, and that dodging law enforcement is a personal victory. I think it's a sad commentary on the deterioration of public behavior in America (and this is almost exclusively an American thing ... in Germany a lifted Jeep would be seized and destroyed on its first day on the road.)

Think the mechanized scofflaws are bad, as a cyclist, maybe self propelled two wheelers are quite random in the laws they do/do not follow.

Re: MTA's A.I. bus cameras issue mistaken parking violations

#80

Post by jeffbee »

jmspring wrote: post #79
jeffbee wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how mechanized scofflaws believe they are uniquely above the law, and that dodging law enforcement is a personal victory. I think it's a sad commentary on the deterioration of public behavior in America (and this is almost exclusively an American thing ... in Germany a lifted Jeep would be seized and destroyed on its first day on the road.)

Think the mechanized scofflaws are bad, as a cyclist, maybe self propelled two wheelers are quite random in the laws they do/do not follow.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists...
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