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Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

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Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#171

Post by r00fus »

portaouflop wrote: post #68
thayne wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea of not being able to purchase older titles in a legitimate way only encourages piracy The solution is to dramatically decrease the length of copyright, so that old games (or other software) can be obtained legally (and modified) even if the original maker no longer sells it.

Or just pirate it like we did for the last 30+ years… Copyright is broken and has failed it’s purpose - I have no hope that we can fix it in my lifetime.

Copyright has been coopted by industry for a LONG time. Its purpose for the longest time has been to line the pockets of rights holders and screw everyone else.

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#172

Post by Pet_Ant »

Etherlord87 wrote: post #170
Pet_Ant wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Starcraft 2 murdered RTS genre, it was and is so good, that nothing comes close. I mean Supreme Commander has an active community despite coming out 3 years earlier, with less hype, and from a company that has long died. Starcraft 2 had a nice campaign, but it really felt like Starcraft 1.5. Never really elevated the genre. SupCom really did.

Starcraft 2 came with a new, 3D engine. How can you call it Stacraft 1.5 let's be serious.

Sure, but the terrain wasn't truly 3D. I'm pretty sure there isn't any ballistics calculations for the attacks in Starcraft. It could have easily been a Starcraft remaster. It didn't really take the RTS genre to the next level. Doom does a lot more innovation between iterations.

Have you played Total Annihilation or Supreme Commander? Those increased the scale, the tactics, the map size. The weapons felt more varied. Really, made SC 1 & 2 feel rather Mickey Mouse.

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#173

Post by bluescrn »

properpopper wrote: post #163
0dayz wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem was the timing, Starcraft 2 mechanics wise is fine even if they made some really whimsical balance changes that plagued the esport scene until it was almost pulled off life support (similar to how Overwatch couldn't balance itself to the point where the developers gave up). If like HotS and Diablo 3 it came out much earlier it would've kept the RTS genre most likely alive (only revived interest in AoE 2 s…

> * if you wanted micromanaged static MOBA: Dota 2 Static? Dota 2 is not a dynamic game? Not why wdym by "micromanaged" - Meepo, Nature prophet? > * If you wanted a 3rd person shooter MOBA: Smite Paragon? > HotS tried to mimic LoL Completely different games, hots feels more like a team based game compared to Dota 2 or Lol because it has shared experience + no gold + no items - so the gap between a good and a bad play…

MOBA is a strange genre. Seems to take the worst bits of of RTS and the worst of ARPG, and combine it with the worst of the gaming community and a multiplayer-only design that's very hostile to beginners.

Never got on with them or really understood the appeal, despite loving RTS and ARPGs.

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#174

Post by pdimitar »

0dayz wrote: post #112
Etherlord87 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starcraft 2 murdered RTS genre, it was and is so good, that nothing comes close. I have no idea why you put it on the list. Activision Blizzard was 2008. Shutting Blizzard North was 2005. So indeed it seems it was rotting before official Vivaldi-Activision merger. I think, just like with Starcraft, you misread the situation with "hype of the genre was gone" about moba. I think Blizzard was very good at creating extre…

The problem was the timing, Starcraft 2 mechanics wise is fine even if they made some really whimsical balance changes that plagued the esport scene until it was almost pulled off life support (similar to how Overwatch couldn't balance itself to the point where the developers gave up). If like HotS and Diablo 3 it came out much earlier it would've kept the RTS genre most likely alive (only revived interest in AoE 2 s…

As a casual player who was deeply invested in the Blizzard-verse me and my wife absolutely loved HOTS, regardless of timing et. al. that you mentioned.

Our problem with it ultimately became the drudgery. We wanted more game modes, some wacky whimsical arcade-like stuff. It's been a while and my memory isn't great in terms of the timeline but I think eventually they did add something like that? Can't remember but basically we gave up on the game because there was no gameplay experience diversity; stuff was more or less the same.

...and then they abandoned it... :(

HOTS is still a beautiful and well-made game though. To this day.

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#175

Post by pdimitar »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #172
Etherlord87 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starcraft 2 came with a new, 3D engine. How can you call it Stacraft 1.5 let's be serious.

Sure, but the terrain wasn't truly 3D. I'm pretty sure there isn't any ballistics calculations for the attacks in Starcraft. It could have easily been a Starcraft remaster. It didn't really take the RTS genre to the next level. Doom does a lot more innovation between iterations. Have you played Total Annihilation or Supreme Commander? Those increased the scale, the tactics, the map size. The weapons felt more varied.…

Tastes are tastes and as such are subjective and can't be contested. But Supreme Commander looks like almost a different genre to me. I like SC2's format to this day.

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#176

Post by mnky9800n »

cogman10 wrote: post #146
Majromax wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to just drop a book recommendation, but Jason Schreier's Play Nice covers the history of Blizzard in comprehensive detail. The overall situation was multifacted, but my takeaway is that Blizzard's recent failures come down to two main themes: * World of Warcraft's success gave the company unrealistic expectations of what a successful "normal" game looked like, and * "When it's ready" covers up the sins of a co…

So interestingly you see this sort of thing play out in online media. - Youtuber X has a runaway successful video/s. - Seeing the cashflow from that video, they think "Hey, I could probably duplicate this!" - When that duplication fails, they decide "You know what, maybe I just need to make a lot of videos" - When that doesn't bring in the expected income and/or leads to burnout they think "You know what, I think I n…

But for some reason the angry video game nerd keeps making videos.

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#177

Post by 0dayz »

properpopper wrote: post #163
0dayz wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem was the timing, Starcraft 2 mechanics wise is fine even if they made some really whimsical balance changes that plagued the esport scene until it was almost pulled off life support (similar to how Overwatch couldn't balance itself to the point where the developers gave up). If like HotS and Diablo 3 it came out much earlier it would've kept the RTS genre most likely alive (only revived interest in AoE 2 s…

> * if you wanted micromanaged static MOBA: Dota 2 Static? Dota 2 is not a dynamic game? Not why wdym by "micromanaged" - Meepo, Nature prophet? > * If you wanted a 3rd person shooter MOBA: Smite Paragon? > HotS tried to mimic LoL Completely different games, hots feels more like a team based game compared to Dota 2 or Lol because it has shared experience + no gold + no items - so the gap between a good and a bad play…

>Static? Dota 2 is not a dynamic game? Not why wdym by "micromanaged" - Meepo, Nature prophet?

Dota 2 afaik still relies heavily on static effects such as on click effects rather than LoL where it's mostly just a matter of "skill" based abilities.

>Completely different games, hots feels more like a team based game compared to Dota 2 or Lol because it has shared experience + no gold + no items - so the gap between a good and a bad player is not that visible compared to Dota2/Lol where you can abandon your team for 20-30 minutes and then destroy everyone

HotS is a watered down version of LoL, it doesn't mean it's bad it just means it could never compete to garner the same audience when we already have "Dota 2 for big brain people, LoL for casual people".

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#178

Post by 0dayz »

Majromax wrote: post #128
0dayz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it started waaay before that. * The sexual misconduct most likely happened way before it came out publicly as all the sleezebags stayed until it was public * real id debacle * Diablo 3 * shutting down blizzard north, despite working on d3 * spending 10 years on trying to make starcraft 2, when the rts genre was in a major slump * x years on the project titan, only to get cancelled * spent years trying to create…

I hate to just drop a book recommendation, but Jason Schreier's Play Nice covers the history of Blizzard in comprehensive detail. The overall situation was multifacted, but my takeaway is that Blizzard's recent failures come down to two main themes: * World of Warcraft's success gave the company unrealistic expectations of what a successful "normal" game looked like, and * "When it's ready" covers up the sins of a co…

There was also imo a big cultural hubris among the Blizzard developers that if it wasn't done their way (i.e. they couldn't just take an existing IP like Dota and slap Blizzard logo on it, no no, had to start from scratch).

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#179

Post by 0dayz »

Thaxll wrote: post #132
0dayz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it started waaay before that. * The sexual misconduct most likely happened way before it came out publicly as all the sleezebags stayed until it was public * real id debacle * Diablo 3 * shutting down blizzard north, despite working on d3 * spending 10 years on trying to make starcraft 2, when the rts genre was in a major slump * x years on the project titan, only to get cancelled * spent years trying to create…

This is just a bad take on Blizzard. - x years on the project titan, only to get cancelled Overwatch came out of that and it was one of the biggest game in the last 15years. It sold over 50m copies, an insane number.

Which was pure and utter luck from scrapping a 10-ish year old project which who knows much much money they threw in.

What if Overwatch would've been a huge failure? Would we still vindicate Blizzard's failed 2nd MMO?

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#180

Post by 0dayz »

hhjinks wrote: post #133
0dayz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it started waaay before that. * The sexual misconduct most likely happened way before it came out publicly as all the sleezebags stayed until it was public * real id debacle * Diablo 3 * shutting down blizzard north, despite working on d3 * spending 10 years on trying to make starcraft 2, when the rts genre was in a major slump * x years on the project titan, only to get cancelled * spent years trying to create…

I'm confused, you say it started before the merger, and go on to list a bunch of events that happened years after the merger.

Nope, all of these things happened before the merger, the fact that Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, etc. was released after the merger doesn't change the fact that Blizzard was dragging their feet on those IPs.
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