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Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

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Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#161

Post by BlueTemplar »

portaouflop wrote: post #68
thayne wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea of not being able to purchase older titles in a legitimate way only encourages piracy The solution is to dramatically decrease the length of copyright, so that old games (or other software) can be obtained legally (and modified) even if the original maker no longer sells it.

Or just pirate it like we did for the last 30+ years… Copyright is broken and has failed it’s purpose - I have no hope that we can fix it in my lifetime.

The issue here is that Blizzard is well known to be cease-and-desist letter-happy, as SC1 modders found out even before the merger with Activision (IIRC).

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#162

Post by BlueTemplar »

Etherlord87 wrote: post #109
izacus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more interesting how y'all always find ways to tear into everyone that makes a stand - no true scotsman style while giving a pass to much worse actors. Companies like Activision, Ubisoft, EA and Microsoft can do outright horrible things and you'll be sitting by quitely, but god forbid someone like GoG shows up with an idea to fix something and you tear into them just because they didn't solve all the worlds poli…

It's not about not solving a problem, it's about being a part of the problem. GOG took part in bullying a developer for political reasons. We don't want to live in the world where you can't criticize China or you will be cancelled. Of course Microsoft is guilty of removing the Tiananmen Square massacre result from Bing on an anniversary of that event. Did they ever explain why that happened? I think not.

Yes, what GoG did is bad.

Unfortunately, very few (non-giant) developers still let you buy and download DRM-free games from their own websites, and so far, as far as I am aware of, GoG is still the least bad option for the others (there's also the likes of Matrix-Slitherine and itch.io, but they are much more niche).

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#163

Post by properpopper »

0dayz wrote: post #112
Etherlord87 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starcraft 2 murdered RTS genre, it was and is so good, that nothing comes close. I have no idea why you put it on the list. Activision Blizzard was 2008. Shutting Blizzard North was 2005. So indeed it seems it was rotting before official Vivaldi-Activision merger. I think, just like with Starcraft, you misread the situation with "hype of the genre was gone" about moba. I think Blizzard was very good at creating extre…

The problem was the timing, Starcraft 2 mechanics wise is fine even if they made some really whimsical balance changes that plagued the esport scene until it was almost pulled off life support (similar to how Overwatch couldn't balance itself to the point where the developers gave up). If like HotS and Diablo 3 it came out much earlier it would've kept the RTS genre most likely alive (only revived interest in AoE 2 s…

> * if you wanted micromanaged static MOBA: Dota 2

Static? Dota 2 is not a dynamic game? Not why wdym by "micromanaged" - Meepo, Nature prophet?

> * If you wanted a 3rd person shooter MOBA: Smite

Paragon?

> HotS tried to mimic LoL

Completely different games, hots feels more like a team based game compared to Dota 2 or Lol because it has shared experience + no gold + no items - so the gap between a good and a bad player is not that visible compared to Dota2/Lol where you can abandon your team for 20-30 minutes and then destroy everyone

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#164

Post by properpopper »

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #155
0dayz wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem was the timing, Starcraft 2 mechanics wise is fine even if they made some really whimsical balance changes that plagued the esport scene until it was almost pulled off life support (similar to how Overwatch couldn't balance itself to the point where the developers gave up). If like HotS and Diablo 3 it came out much earlier it would've kept the RTS genre most likely alive (only revived interest in AoE 2 s…

The goofy thing about all this is that HotS is really good if you judge it on its own merits. I played DotA for a long time, switched to HotS, and never looked back.

Hots feels great because it has multiple maps, you don't have to farm/ buy items, but it can feel boring comparing to Dota2/Lol

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#166

Post by proc0 »

pshirshov wrote: post #110
proc0 wrote: post #8

Well I bought WC2 already and have the files. That's the best part of GOG, you can just make your own backup. I think with hard copies going away, the ability to make backups of what you buy should be protected by law, at least for software that is no longer supported (of course one side effect is that all games become services, but there have been single player games recently that prove it's still a good business mo…

Usually you don't "buy" DRM-protected stuff but lease it.

Right, that's the core of the problem. Piracy is indeed part of the reason the industry moves in this direction, but it's a solution that comes at a huge cost to the consumer, and as a consequence to the industry in the long term.

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#167

Post by proc0 »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #134
proc0 wrote: post #8

Well I bought WC2 already and have the files. That's the best part of GOG, you can just make your own backup. I think with hard copies going away, the ability to make backups of what you buy should be protected by law, at least for software that is no longer supported (of course one side effect is that all games become services, but there have been single player games recently that prove it's still a good business mo…

Ideally DRM would be banned, as it's in fine a danger for liberal democracy. But there are very powerful interests (including at the state level) that consider DRM worth having even to 'protect' something as trifling in comparison as commercial leisure products. So I guess we're stuck with personally avoiding DRMed (including online only) media, and supporting the likes of EFF, GoG, and https://www.stopkillinggames.c…

Right, piracy is a real issue here, but I think DRM and making games a SAAS hurts the industry in the long run. I'm still not convinced it's such an issue that it requires these methods of control. Indie games are constantly releasing titles that do well and become huge. If a game is good it will do well regardless because there will be enough people who pay for it, but I get that it's hard to convince large companies of this.

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#168

Post by lrem »

Aachen wrote: post #83
lrem wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a very long time “hard copies” were just a physical precache of the download. What you actually paid for was the online store code inside the box. I’ve stopped buying boxes after the second one like this.

The software I bought on CD/DVD was never like that unless you mean needing to contact some activation server. As far as I know, things like the Switch game cartridges are also real (presumably with a similar asterisk). The only annoying things are these installers nowadays you download for e.g. Chrome or, a bit longer ago, Flash, not so much the things sold as copy to own (resellable) I wouldn't discourage people fr…

CD? Sure, that was entirely in the good era. But the last two games I bought on DVD (something forgotten from EA I think and the nice Mass Effect Trilogy boxset) were what I described - store codes printed in the box, can use the attached physical media to save on downloading time.

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#169

Post by bilekas »

apetresc wrote: post #122
depr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are remastered versions of those games that Blizzard wants to sell instead.

Well, it's not just that - Blizzard is actively selling the non-remastered original versions (running on DOSBox exactly like the GoG ones) directly from the Battle.net launcher now too. They've essentially in-housed the exact same product that they originally commissioned for GoG. It may or may not be a jerk move, business-wise (I have no idea what their original agreement with GoG was when they launched it there), b…

> They've essentially in-housed the exact same product that they originally commissioned for GoG.

With added DRM? Because if I remember correctly the blizzard luncher has built in DRM, unable to launch the game without it?

Re: Blizzard's pulling of Warcraft I and II tests GOG's new Preservation Program

#170

Post by Etherlord87 »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #149
Etherlord87 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starcraft 2 murdered RTS genre, it was and is so good, that nothing comes close. I have no idea why you put it on the list. Activision Blizzard was 2008. Shutting Blizzard North was 2005. So indeed it seems it was rotting before official Vivaldi-Activision merger. I think, just like with Starcraft, you misread the situation with "hype of the genre was gone" about moba. I think Blizzard was very good at creating extre…

> Starcraft 2 murdered RTS genre, it was and is so good, that nothing comes close. I mean Supreme Commander has an active community despite coming out 3 years earlier, with less hype, and from a company that has long died. Starcraft 2 had a nice campaign, but it really felt like Starcraft 1.5. Never really elevated the genre. SupCom really did.

Starcraft 2 came with a new, 3D engine. How can you call it Stacraft 1.5 let's be serious.
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