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Forced to upgrade

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Re: Forced to upgrade

#131

Post by zitterbewegung »

putzdown wrote: post #126

The main message I take from this story is that a decent quorum of consumers want Apple to offer a smaller phone in each generation. The OP seems not to have minded having to upgrade eventually, just not to a “virtual tablet.” I’ve heard others express the same desire.

And Apple did this for two generations and not enough of people one bought it but it is still available used .

https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-12/specs/ (12 mini)

https://support.apple.com/en-us/111873

I would recommend to return the phone and get the 13 mini which should last awhile

Re: Forced to upgrade

#133

Post by marsovo »

abtinf wrote: post #129
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm typing this on my 5-year old Samsung A30 that, aside from a screen crack I take full responsibility for, is still in perfect working conditions. I never encountered any app that refuses to install despite my device being stuck on Android 11. The only reason this sometimes happen is because of geofencing, or apps built for Pixel phones. I only started to look for acquiring a new device because telecom operators ar…

Just out of curiosity (I’m not familiar with the current state of android software support) does your phone still get security updates and, assuming it does, how much longer do you expect them to continue?

Samsung is top-tier by Android standards. 4 years of security updates and 3 years of OS upgrades (minimum - some devices, such as the premium models, get more than that).

Better than Google themselves when last I checked, which is shameful.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#134

Post by antasvara »

epistasis wrote: post #23
thaumaturgy wrote: post #5

I'm still daily-driving an iPhone 7, so I sympathize. A few apps have complained about the older OS; so far I've been able to react by deleting the apps. Smartphones cause a truly astonishing amount of waste ( https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2018/12/11/right-to-repair-... : ~151 million phones discarded in the US each year, as of 2018), to say nothing of the various social follow-on effects that are being argued to…

That article is awfully short on estimating environmental impact. Other sources on the web say that, including 4 years of electricity usage, an iPhone's total carbon impact is ~175 pounds of CO2, or about 9 gallons of gasoline. Which is roughly 0.25% of emissions from driving a car the average amount for four years. Imperceptible changes to urban planning to shave off a few miles of driving would have a bigger impact…

There are a lot of carbon emissions from a variety of sources. Coal fired power generates more CO2 in the US than all US automobiles combined. Does that mean we should completely ignore automobiles and focus on coal power?

Focusing on the "smallest" problem at the expense of the "biggest" is the wrong approach. But ignoring small problems that are easier to fix is also the wrong approach. The author is using a phone that is more than 6 years old and still functions; making it easier to continue using it feels like an easier problem than changing urban planning.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#135

Post by stouset »

pjmlp wrote: post #99
bzzzt wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes newer code is not enough. Older versions of the secure enclave hardware had security leaks and are not software patchable.

Still better than not providing any updates at all.

How far back is reasonable to go?

How much additional complexity do we tolerate in order to target hardware with diverging feature sets?

How much should we hold new software back in order to target older hardware that can’t do the same things without chewing through battery?

Frankly I think it’s fucking amazing what Apple has done here, especially when you compare against the Windows ecosystem (at least as of the last time I used it ages ago). The rate of adoption of OS upgrades is such that app developers can actually reasonably target new OS APIs without having to wait a decade for a critical mass of users.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#136

Post by tonyedgecombe »

putzdown wrote: post #126

The main message I take from this story is that a decent quorum of consumers want Apple to offer a smaller phone in each generation. The OP seems not to have minded having to upgrade eventually, just not to a “virtual tablet.” I’ve heard others express the same desire.

Yet when Apple offer those devices they don’t sell enough to warrant Apple keeping them in the lineup.

Having said that I wonder if the article’s author would have been better off buying the SE. It is smaller, has Touch ID and will run his apps.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#137

Post by SoftTalker »

xorcist wrote: post #74
keiferski wrote: post #38

To play devil’s advocate here, I actually think iPhones have some of the best longevity and resale value, compared to virtually any other product or brand - except perhaps if we go back decades to appliances made near the middle of the century. The fact that a device can be perfectly usable for 5+ years is pretty good compared to most other things I find myself buying and replacing in less time. Otherwise I think the…

> The fact that a device can be perfectly usable for 5+ years is pretty good No. No, it's not good at all. For almost every other product it would be deemed unacceptable. Beyond unacceptable even. We should not normalize this. My car is > 10 years old. My desktop computer is > 10 years old. My laptop has had both the screen and battery changed. And the fan, multiple times. I don't know how old my laser printer is, pr…

For most people a phone is a monthly payment. One of the rewards that keeps them paying is that every few years they get an "upgrade." The phone companies and the mobile carriers very smartly followed the car model of selling: they sell a payment, and when the balance is paid off they offer a trade-in/upgrade (and a new loan). If you resist, you eventually stop getting support.

For the same reason, many car dealerships don't work on cars more than 10 years old. They keep their techs focused on the newer stuff, and increasingly pressure owners of older cars to trade them in.

Fortunately for car owners, there is a robust market of, and legal requirements to allow, parts and independent service shops for older cars. We don't have nearly that kind of support for older phones.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#138

Post by gregoriol »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #131
putzdown wrote: post #126

The main message I take from this story is that a decent quorum of consumers want Apple to offer a smaller phone in each generation. The OP seems not to have minded having to upgrade eventually, just not to a “virtual tablet.” I’ve heard others express the same desire.

And Apple did this for two generations and not enough of people one bought it but it is still available used . https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-12/specs/ (12 mini) https://support.apple.com/en-us/111873 I would recommend to return the phone and get the 13 mini which should last awhile

The SE3 is good enough and not too big

Re: Forced to upgrade

#139

Post by NotYourLawyer »

ciconia wrote: post #22

The real question, IMO, is why the need to release a new model every year? I think a lot of the churn of both hardware and software had nothing to do with technological progress, and everything to do with generating sales.

> everything to do with generating sales

You say this like it’s a bad thing, and maybe it is, but it’s hardly a surprising thing.

Literally everything Apple does is entirely about generating sales. They’re not running a charity for the benefit of their fans. The only reason to come up with designs that people like is to sell them.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#140

Post by jamager »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #131
putzdown wrote: post #126

The main message I take from this story is that a decent quorum of consumers want Apple to offer a smaller phone in each generation. The OP seems not to have minded having to upgrade eventually, just not to a “virtual tablet.” I’ve heard others express the same desire.

And Apple did this for two generations and not enough of people one bought it but it is still available used . https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-12/specs/ (12 mini) https://support.apple.com/en-us/111873 I would recommend to return the phone and get the 13 mini which should last awhile

If I get a 13 mini today, updates will last 3 years. That is not much for what it is still a fairly expensive phone
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