Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

news.ycombinator.com

241–250 of 305 posts

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#241
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree 100%. Mentorship from more experienced colleagues can save an enormous amount of time in pain by pointing out someone is going in the wrong direction very early on. Mentors can also expose a mentees to “unknown unknowns,” which a mentee might not otherwise know that they need to investigate. I agree that “learning how to learn” is more valuable, but that’s not to say that mentors or more experienced engineers h…

You say you agree, but your points are opposite of his points. Watching a senior is not a senior pointing you to pitfalls, or unknown unknowns. The parent argues that although there is value in being near a senior, all the actions lay with the junior. This is a transition people need to make when they leave school and enter work.

I am not making points to expand on how I agree.. I am a elaborating on the benefits of having more senior colleagues around. The benefit is not that they watch you and correct you. Indeed, the mentee must drive their own learning. The really valuable part of having a more senior engineer around is not that you just magically learn by osmosis, but that you can ask them questions as they come up _and then level-up rapidly._ That’s the context my points were more meant for.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#242
I think the most effective way to learn is to stay at a place long enough so that you are still there when (not if) your decisions a couple of years ago come back to bite you. You need to experience full feedback cycles to become a great engineer and that can take 2-3 years after first shipping code to become apparent. I never had a mentor either, but I stayed at my first job for 11 years and I would never replace that experience with a mentor.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#244
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually he should be comparing with other software engineers in his industry

Unfortunately the world we live in is one where not everyone can find a job that pays silicon valley salaries where they want/need/are able to live.

i was referring to the oil industry where he works, not silicon valley

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#245
post #204

> But even then, I'm afraid I am not producing the software to the highest standards of the industry Realistically, you’re not, but does that matter at all to the company? I’ve had your role in a small company, the job wasn’t really about the tech. Unless there is a dedicated product manager, that is your role now too, and it’s one to take seriously. You have enviable freedom, do not waste it. Be straight with your b…

It probably doesn't matter to the company but it matters a lot to OP's career growth. If they ever want to switch to a different company then it's important to have strong tech fundamentals unless they're just going to stay in the oil industry.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#246
Seniors help you grow faster and help you avoid unnecessary dead end approaches etc.

But aren't needed to grow (but make growing so much easier and as such allow you to grow more over the same time frame).

The most important part are:

- self reflect on you work, importantly do take a emotional step back before doing so to (hopefully) have a objectifish self reflection

- if you do mistakes try to understand _why exactly_ things went wrong, instead of just finding a solution or a target of to put blame on. E.g. if some system lead to some issues don't just put if of because "that system is bad designed" but try to understand which aspects of the design are the problem and dig deeper to find out e.g. if there is a reason it's designed that way.

- in general try to learn the underlying principle independent of the fancy branding and terminology it's backed in. E.g. people all the time reinvent and rediscover long term known concepts and them give them new names and say it's something completely different even if it's not. (But also new impl. of old concepts can sometimes make the difference between unusual and a grate solution). E.g. rail track programming (e.g. in swift) is just a reinvention using Monades for error handling.

- there a many seniors sharing their knowledge freely on the internet, the tricky part her is that not everyone pretending to be a expert is one and not everyone who is a expert in one area is one in another. So never blindly follow their advice.

- when you get advice, especially from less trustable sources like the web, understand _why_/_how_ this advice is going to help instead of just following it. Also question the advice, try to find out when the advice might be a bad idea even if it seems to always be a good idea.

- reading documentation instead of just googling (or LLM generating) solutions can help with understanding (through not always, a lot of doc is terrible bad). Now speed wise you might not have time for that but double checking found solutions by checking them against the documentation is something you often should do anyways.

- be aware that even if you feel you are a senior there is a lot of thing you don't know, more importantly a lot of thing you don't know you don't know.

- don't just reflect on work you recently finished go back to older work

- if it's your thing, keep notes in a well organized way and go back to them to reflect how you understanding might have changed

there is more but I have to go

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#247
Consider adjusting your perspective. As you’ve said, you ARE the tech lead right now — you just don’t have any peers. Yet.

Prepare for the day when workload increases to the point where you are hiring in your first resource. You are now the senior in the equation.

This can be an exciting time. What’s the first thing you’ll hand over? Does it make sense the way it works now? What would you do differently?

Ask yourself these questions and make the changes now, while you have time. Prepare for the team you don’t have. Yet.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#248

I'll give you some senior advice too, which is probably a bit of a different direction than what you expect. In regards to this: > However, I have some strong FOMO about not being able to learn much technical stuff from my peers or seniors. I am trying my best to learn and pick things up on my own, learning design principles, getting code reviews from ChatGPT, etc. But even then, I'm afraid I am not producing the sof…

This is the best advice I’ve read so far.

Real Q is, do you care about oil and gas? Probably answer is no. This sucks too.

The skills you gain from autonomy might translate into, you have a good idea for a new business, you ask your rich boss for a $25k-$100k check investing in your new thing when you leave. I assume it will not be in oil and gas because nobody really cares about mineral extraction sincerely.

This deal sounds nice but in reality there are millions of people your age who get a $25k-$100k check every year from their parents to do something they care about, as opposed to some boring ass business.

Your instincts to find mentors are good. The hard truth is you will have to quit to find them, you have correctly ascertained that you are hitting a ceiling, and developing a relationship with these guys is kind of worthless.

This is the real value of “Google” and “Airbnb:” they’re so big and they’re household names, even if you worked on some bullshit meaningless thing there, you can get a lot of people to pay attention to the new thing you want to do that you are actually excited about. The skills you develop will not be useful for getting hired at these companies, unfortunately that is a huge crapshoot right now, and you’d have to do a career reset by taking grad school or something, because I cannot emphasize enough how little people care about mineral extraction.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#249

Hi all, just to clear some misconceptions: - I'm quite well paid here (4x more than my peers) - I have been hired full-time, and get all the company benefits as well. - The work life is great, and I don't work more than 8-9 hours a day. - The manager/director is great and super supportive. - I'm not being exploited by any means :) Kindly upvote so the disclaimer stays on top of the post!

Coding is the easiest part of the job. The hardest part is creating resilient, useful, and beautiful software. I advise the following

- Learn the domain you are in deeply. Talk to the experts (not senior engineers, I'm talking about people doing the work) in your company about how the business and industry works.

- The interface is the product. Design beautiful interfaces that match people's mental models. A beautiful architecture needs to support these interfaces. If you have poor engineering, it will show through the product via the interface.

- All good engineers are good architects and product people. They understand the needs of their users. They understand their psychology.

- There might be software patterns for your industry, find them and learn them.

TLDR; The coding part is easy, don't seek the senior engineer to get ahead, look for the industry and business experts. Learn how to build products that are impactful for the people using your software and the business. That's how you become a great engineer.

Post reply on HN