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Forced to upgrade

herman.bearblog.dev

81–90 of 303 posts

Re: Forced to upgrade

#81
post #22

The real question, IMO, is why the need to release a new model every year? I think a lot of the churn of both hardware and software had nothing to do with technological progress, and everything to do with generating sales.

If you consider one person in isolation it sure does not make sense to release a new phone every year.

If you consider all users though, they most certainly do not buy/upgrade at the same time. So let's say a new generation is released every three years, for a given user when buy-time comes they'd be buying a brand new phone that is 1.5 years old tech on average, 2.9 worst case. Releasing a new phone each year means there is the opportunity to buy the up-to-date technology (whether it's a flagship or an economic version) at any particular point in time.

Opportunity does not mean necessity. By and large once people buy a phone and are happy with it they don't change it til it's dead or slow. Most I've seen keep it even way beyond the major version support threshold, or even security update threshold (which can happen faster than expected when people buy refurbs or older models, which they do). They're appliances. There are new models of cars or TVs or washing machines every year, yet virtually nobody changes those every year. One just buys the best one within their budget x identified use case at a given point in time.

In my experience the persona that buys a new phone every year used to exist in the early smartphone days, but today is by and large an outlier figure.

Not that mobile carriers like that, instead they try to keep the churn alive against the tide, because they want customers locked in so they have you buy carrier-locked phones at a rebate under a 1y contract and dearly want you to renew at the end, which means enticing you to get a new, carrier-locked phone.

The only ones I see changing phones regularly are the ones buying phones as consumables instead of appliances - less "washing machine", more "toilet paper", the kind of phone that is cheap and underpowered, borderlining on unusable (or outright so, which I consider to be defective by design) e-waste right out of the assembly line. They don't care about the device, so they don't pay attention, so they break it every rand(0..6) mo, and then the cost to repair is barely lower than the price new plus "it was so slow anyway", so they buy a new cheap one and the circle starts again; which doesn't quite work out financially of course, they'd be better off buying a good phone and paying attention to it (which they would simply because it's not cheap). But back to the point, this kind of persona doesn't care at all about the device "newness".

Re: Forced to upgrade

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that a device can be perfectly usable for 5+ years is pretty good compared to most other things I find myself buying and replacing in less time. Woa. Nearly every other device in my house lasts for 10+ years. Coffee machine, printer, laundry machine, oven, TV, every single one of those is over 10 years old. Our car isn't yet but I very much expect it to last at least that long. The only device I replace ab…

I think you’re probably buying higher quality items, yes? Because there’s no way a $50-100 coffee machine or printer is lasting a decade. This can probably be explained by the fact that an iPhone is a “cheaper” (comparatively) high end item. In other words, it’s one of the few high end items that many middle and low income people own. And thus compared to the coffee machines, printers, and other cheap electronics tha…

> Because there’s no way a $50-100 coffee machine or printer is lasting a decade.

There absolutely is.

Viz. the no-name drip machine I picked up at Goodwill for $10 and is probably older than me. The heating element makes the water boil, and it trickles over the grounds and becomes my morning salvation.

Viz. the Brother laser printer ca. 2013 for $99 (in, admittedly, 2013 dollars). I had to replace the toner once, it was slightly annoying.

Neither of these items has an app.

Longevity ≈ Quality / Complexity where Quality ≠ Price

Re: Forced to upgrade

#83
Still rocking an iPhone 7. I’ve encountered a few apps that have dropped iOS 15, but surprisingly not that many.

I feel the same way the author does. With a new battery the phone works fairly well and I don’t need to upgrade.

With the exception of the SE models, all newer models are too big, have a notch, and Face ID. There’s just no compelling reason to upgrade other than being forced by the company.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#84
post #64
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compared to most other things What other things? In my home most appliances are 15+ years old -- ovens, washing machines, even most Sonos things are around 20 years old. My Yamaha PF-P 100, bought in 1994, still works perfectly well. A smartphone is certainly more complex than a MIDI keyboard, but why would we need to upgrade the OS constantly.

Security.

Nothing inherent makes security on 7 year old hardware any more difficult than on 2 year old hardware.

Also, we're getting into the differences between upgrades (what OP said) and updates (the thing necessary to keep up with security) here. I'm having a really hard time coming up with an OS feature introduced in a full OS upgrade within the last 10 years that I actually want. I would have been perfectly content with only getting security updates since.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#85
post #32
post #22

The real question, IMO, is why the need to release a new model every year? I think a lot of the churn of both hardware and software had nothing to do with technological progress, and everything to do with generating sales.

Well, it does obviously have to do with generating sales. But to play devil's advocate, I never have enough battery life, even with a fresh battery. There are incremental improvements, year-over-year, in terms of processor efficiency. I take a lot of photos, and I definitely notice having a 5x optical zoom now. There are details that some people would say are worth upgrading. But it is not the case that all people fi…

> Well, it does obviously have to do with generating sales.

I don't think it's that obvious, and I don't think manufacturers count on it ("it" being short length updates)

Instead I think it's about handling competition: say a manufacturer updates their product line every 3 years, should a user that kept their phone for a while need to buy in the middle to last bout, they'll look at the market and see "oh that other manufacturer has released an update to their product line a month ago, so I'm going to buy that instead of a 2yo product from my current manufacturer". The comparison may be done on any kind of metric but it ultimately comes down to what's state of the art at a given point in time.

It doesn't mean the user hasn't kept their previous phone a long time. But to be competitive across the time continuum the product line needs to be fresh enough.

In that sense it generates sale, or rather, helps with retention, not by having one update every year or other year, but by creating the opportunity to stay within one's current brand.

I think leading manufacturers have realised a long time ago that satisfied customers are what generates reliable sales and growth long term. Even Samsung, king of the shiny "innovative"-but-useless bullet-point feature list have somewhat gotten their act together.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#86
post #72

> I also miss TouchID. I agree - Touch ID is far superior to Face ID.

What do you like about Touch ID? I think I'd switch platforms before going away from Face ID, it's so trivial to authenticate without even moving a muscle that I don't even think about it. I have an older iPad with touch ID, and I simply turned it off because it felt like an anachronism in the experience.

Fingerprint vs Face shines while (for instance) having a conversation and, because you have manners, want to maintain eye contact while pulling up a photo of that thing you are describing, or to make sure that's just a robocall and not your wife with an emergency.

It also shines first thing in the morning where your hair and eyes are so disheveled that even Siri didn't recognize you. Your thumb is probably still the same shape.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re probably buying higher quality items, yes? Because there’s no way a $50-100 coffee machine or printer is lasting a decade. This can probably be explained by the fact that an iPhone is a “cheaper” (comparatively) high end item. In other words, it’s one of the few high end items that many middle and low income people own. And thus compared to the coffee machines, printers, and other cheap electronics tha…

> Because there’s no way a $50-100 coffee machine or printer is lasting a decade. There absolutely is. Viz. the no-name drip machine I picked up at Goodwill for $10 and is probably older than me. The heating element makes the water boil, and it trickles over the grounds and becomes my morning salvation. Viz. the Brother laser printer ca. 2013 for $99 (in, admittedly, 2013 dollars). I had to replace the toner once, it…

Your experience is different than mine, then. At least 50% of the cheap electronic devices I've purchased end up breaking in a year or two.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#88
post #64
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compared to most other things What other things? In my home most appliances are 15+ years old -- ovens, washing machines, even most Sonos things are around 20 years old. My Yamaha PF-P 100, bought in 1994, still works perfectly well. A smartphone is certainly more complex than a MIDI keyboard, but why would we need to upgrade the OS constantly.

Security.

Against which threats?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42293962

Re: Forced to upgrade

#89

I'm still daily-driving an iPhone 7, so I sympathize. A few apps have complained about the older OS; so far I've been able to react by deleting the apps. Smartphones cause a truly astonishing amount of waste ( https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2018/12/11/right-to-repair-... : ~151 million phones discarded in the US each year, as of 2018), to say nothing of the various social follow-on effects that are being argued to…

That article is awfully short on estimating environmental impact. Other sources on the web say that, including 4 years of electricity usage, an iPhone's total carbon impact is ~175 pounds of CO2, or about 9 gallons of gasoline. Which is roughly 0.25% of emissions from driving a car the average amount for four years. Imperceptible changes to urban planning to shave off a few miles of driving would have a bigger impact…

"The use phase of a smartphone is not the most significant in the life cycle, in terms of [greenhouse gas] emissions", https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11367-015-0909-4 , from 10 years ago.

From https://eeb.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Coolproducts-repo... (2019):

"Our analysis shows that a 1-year lifetime extension of all smartphones in the EU would save 2.1 Mt CO2 per year by 2030, the equivalent of taking over a million cars off the roads. A lifetime extension of 3 years would save around 4.3 MtCO2. And a 5-year extension would correspond to about 5.5 MtCO2."

The extra global warming contributions come from "manufacturing, transportation and end-of-life phases", and the increasing dependency on remote servers.

Re: Forced to upgrade

#90
post #50
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that we consider 5-10 years to be "legacy" in any way shape or form. It does seem to very much just be at the consumer level. We've still got servers chugging away in datacenters that are pushing 15 years old and still have several years of life left in them.

> It does seem to very much just be at the consumer level. We've still got servers chugging away in datacenters that are pushing 15 years old and still have several years of life left in them. The datacenter is temperature controlled and the air is filtered. The server is locked in the rack and never moves. By comparison, your laptop or your phone go through hell on a daily basis.

Speak for yourself. Some people prefer to handle their devices with care and expect to get longevity in return.
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