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Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

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Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#121

If you're like me and you want something that Just Works -- ubiquiti's offering is fully local and has all the features you'd want including alerts, ml detection (on some first party cameras), app, timeline, etc. They recently started allowing third party cameras, too, so all you need is a Cloud Gateway (USG Ultra is $150) and you're good to go.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The open source/degoogled alternative to that is UnifiedPush, did you take a look at this? https://unifiedpush.org/ https://ntfy.sh/

I did not, but I will. I would just point out that Privastead assumes the the push notification infrastructure is untrusted anyway.

Sure, just wanted to tell you about it, as this seems to be defacto standard for foss android apps, for example most if not all https://matrix.org clients use it for push notifications (when you use their de googled build, or don't have play services) available. I also use a Signal fork with UnifiedPush and have some server alert scripts which post to my self-hosted ntfy instance, and the ntfy app itself will display them (otherwise for the Messengers, the Notifications will be from the messenger app itself, as these apps get "notified" aboout a notification and then do their own thing).

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#123
I have bought 3 Eufy cameras that were well reviewed and heavily advertised “no subscription fees, everything is local” as the main features. The hardware itself is fine but the software is rubbish, pure and total waste of every byte used to run it. Not only does it not work half of the time when I try to view the footage or connect to the live feed, but it also often misses motion that it should not - I would often walk in from of my house during perfect weather day and it would just not record any motion. On top of that the mobile app’s primary purpose is to show you ads of Eufy cameras, and they are everywhere in the UI, constant; every other feature is secondary extra that developers spend minimal time in between adding ads. Between unreliability and ads it’s all just so incredibly annoying to use. When you complain about the ads they will turn it down a notch, but not fully, the official response is that “they needs ads to pay for the app”, which is incredibly dishonest - it’s just Eufy product ads - you buy a camera, install the app that is required to use it, and you’re bombarded with ads trying to upsell you more of what you just bought because you using their product costs them. So instead of a simple subscription fee you have adware product with dishonest and misleading messaging, and an app that takes half a gig of space so it can show you ads.

I also remember reporting a bug that there was a constant “new” badge next to their referral button in-app, despite me clicking on it and reading it (which I though it would make the “new” badge go away) - support kindly explained to me that they have new referral program every week, which is bonkers because the only thing that changes is the date.

I did look into alternatives but didn’t see anything I could easily trust more after Eufy, so I’m looking forward to the future where simple open source software will cover this part of market, because private companies so far seem to just give you crap for as my $$$ as they can extract.

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#124
What is the purpose of introducing the untrusted "server" component? Is it intended to run in a different place than the trusted "camera hub" component, such as on a cloud server?

This is key to the claim that Privastead offers superior privacy to other solutions, but it's not explained.

My NVR [1] only uses a trusted server that is intended to be in the same building as the cameras. I similarly recommend not allowing the cameras to access the Internet, as their closed-source software is typically a complete nightmare in terms of privacy and security.

[1] https://github.com/scottlamb/moonfire-nvr

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#125

What is the purpose of introducing the untrusted "server" component? Is it intended to run in a different place than the trusted "camera hub" component, such as on a cloud server? This is key to the claim that Privastead offers superior privacy to other solutions, but it's not explained. My NVR [1] only uses a trusted server that is intended to be in the same building as the cameras. I similarly recommend not allowin…

I assume it’s to leverage a) cheap/scalable cloud storage and b) offsite storage for security/ease of access.

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#126

If you're like me and you want something that Just Works -- ubiquiti's offering is fully local and has all the features you'd want including alerts, ml detection (on some first party cameras), app, timeline, etc. They recently started allowing third party cameras, too, so all you need is a Cloud Gateway (USG Ultra is $150) and you're good to go.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#127

Did you look into Scrypted? It is OSS. With HomeKit (which is how I use it) it is also E2EE. I’m not sure if their app is E2EE though, I only use HomeKit. It’s pretty good and has an extensive ecosystem. The dev can be a bit… feisty though. It’s very performant and easy to setup. I don’t use the NVR features as I already have an NVR, I essentially just use it for HomeKit integration of my cameras + doorbell. https://…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#128

If you're like me and you want something that Just Works -- ubiquiti's offering is fully local and has all the features you'd want including alerts, ml detection (on some first party cameras), app, timeline, etc. They recently started allowing third party cameras, too, so all you need is a Cloud Gateway (USG Ultra is $150) and you're good to go.

It is reasonable to assume that Ubiquiti has remote access to your fully local data, given that they run the auth server and also push automatically installed updates.

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#129
post #125

What is the purpose of introducing the untrusted "server" component? Is it intended to run in a different place than the trusted "camera hub" component, such as on a cloud server? This is key to the claim that Privastead offers superior privacy to other solutions, but it's not explained. My NVR [1] only uses a trusted server that is intended to be in the same building as the cameras. I similarly recommend not allowin…

I assume it’s to leverage a) cheap/scalable cloud storage and b) offsite storage for security/ease of access.

Probably, but I'd like to hear the author's take on a key design decision rather than guess. This is also not the only option to achieve some fraction of that goal—another approach would be for the camera hub to encrypt and upload directly to a cloud object storage API (AWS S3 and competitors) and give the client presigned URLs to access it.

My NVR's based on the assumption that you want to record continuously (as called out in the schema design doc here [1]) rather than trust event detection to be perfectly reliable. I've set up other systems in parallel that are based on a different assumption (e.g. Frigate) but have found they miss things, so this is the design I'm comfortable with.

If you are also constrained on upstream bandwidth, continuous recording means you must buy a local hard drive. It costs $100–$200 to buy one that can hold many camera-months of video at good quality, which I find pretty reasonable.

Some folks might want to also upload stuff off-site in case the NVR itself is stolen or destroyed, but I haven't felt the need. There are a bunch of missing features from my system I'd like to add when I have time; that one doesn't make my top 10. YMMV.

[1] https://github.com/scottlamb/moonfire-nvr/blob/master/design...

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#130
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is OSS. Barely. A lot of functionality is gated behind the NVR plugin, which is closed-source and fairly expensive. > easy to setup In my experience, it’s easy to set up. But it’s extremely configurable in all the wrong ways and quite difficult to configure in the ways that one might actually want to configure. And the front end is not fantastic IMO: event filtering is extremely weak and scrubbing is bizarre.

> But it’s extremely configurable in all the wrong ways Damn that feels exactly like my experience with Zoneminder. I’m sure it is decent software under the hood, but the UX is downright hostile to anyone who just wants to get IP cameras to do very basic motion detection to record some full resolution footage, which feels like the major, obvious use case that should be optimized for. I am thankful for OSS existing in…

I suspect there’s a tendency by the kind of developers who make fancy open source projects to expose all the awesome nerdy power of their software. Have three different motion detectors? Expose all of them! Make them plugins! Have “extensions”! Have components provide “things!” Make a UI for all of that! It’s especially nifty when the UI looks just like the code structure.

But making a good UI for defining object detection zones is hard, so the very first thing that works at all sticks. Or, once you’ve carefully optimized by using the camera’s built in motion detection and having all the streams you could want, supporting software motion detection is an afterthought, and making it configurable in any useful manner is even more of an afterthought. After all, all the cameras you actually use personally have built in detection that works well and also have so many built-in RTSP streams that you never actually had to optimize for the experience of using a camera with a single stream, a somewhat defective implementation of ONVIF, and entirely unusable motion detection. So you make it work, but only using plugins and extensions, and it never becomes pleasant.

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