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Penny Arcade Sells Out

kickstarter.com

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Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#91

Post by thalur »

ars wrote: post #90
michaelt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So under the pay-proportional-to-viewship model, artist A runs an intimate orchestral music performance and 10 people donate $100 each (because hey, orchestras are expensive to run); and artist B runs a punk performance in a warehouse where 1000 people pay £1 each. Under your model, the punk performers would make $1980 and the classical performers would make $20 - right?

Under this model yes, but no one said this was the only possible model. It's an idea, not a fully fleshed out proposal. First, people can give directed donations if they like. There would be multiple funds, so presumably the funds would differentiate based on genre. And people would sign up for the funds that have the type of entertainment and art (or even lectures) they prefer. Everything here is completely voluntar…

It seems to me that you have introduced an unnecessary third party to the problem (the agent) that holds the same power and position as the current problem party in the copyright arena (the publisher/label). The interesting development in recent years has been the removal of this party from the equation (self-pub ebooks, kickstarter etc.) so it would be a shame to bring it back.

Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#92

Post by javert »

jacques_chester wrote: post #81
javert wrote: post #60

Somebody really needs to make a startup where, when you visit a page, you can either view ads, or opt out by paying a really teeny tiny amount of money. (And where you can set it to "always opt out and just pay for my damned content.") Problem? You can't really charge people tiny fractions of a cent effectively. Solution? Bit... wait for it... coin.

I'm working on something very much like that.

Bravo :D

By the way, I think the sweet spot for this is online journalism, where there is a need for very high-quality content, but ads never have been sufficient and never will be. In other words, a way to save our beloved newspapers.

Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#93

Post by javert »

oinksoft wrote: post #61
javert wrote: post #60

Somebody really needs to make a startup where, when you visit a page, you can either view ads, or opt out by paying a really teeny tiny amount of money. (And where you can set it to "always opt out and just pay for my damned content.") Problem? You can't really charge people tiny fractions of a cent effectively. Solution? Bit... wait for it... coin.

Does that then make somebody with an ad blocker a thief? Because I don't like the sound of that at all.

Yes. I don't like it either, but you can't have your pie and eat it, too.

Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#94

Post by ars »

thalur wrote: post #91
ars wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under this model yes, but no one said this was the only possible model. It's an idea, not a fully fleshed out proposal. First, people can give directed donations if they like. There would be multiple funds, so presumably the funds would differentiate based on genre. And people would sign up for the funds that have the type of entertainment and art (or even lectures) they prefer. Everything here is completely voluntar…

It seems to me that you have introduced an unnecessary third party to the problem (the agent) that holds the same power and position as the current problem party in the copyright arena (the publisher/label). The interesting development in recent years has been the removal of this party from the equation (self-pub ebooks, kickstarter etc.) so it would be a shame to bring it back.

I would solve that by either not allowing exclusive contracts (so a contract is only for a specific performance) or by limiting all contracts to a maximum of one year.

I would also legislate that all agents get the same percent of the donations as fees. Not sure how much, but under %25. By not having to negotiate this part of the contact agents would be motived to compete on quality - things like how often they would advertise, how good the venues they could get, etc.

Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#95

Post by kaybe »

alttab wrote: post #64
oinksoft wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that then make somebody with an ad blocker a thief? Because I don't like the sound of that at all.

These days you could simply cover the right side of your monitor with a small piece of cardboard and never see ads again. OR - simply don't look. A part of me thinks non-adword based advertising is going to implode because we are creating a generation of internet users that have been trained through high-use to simply ignore ads.

A solution (e.g. used in newspapers) is to make the ads like normal content (just saying "ad" above in fine print).

(On the other hand, I have trouble reading the webpage of a big electronics store because their whole site looks like an obnoxious ad and is filtered by my brain.. )

Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#96

Post by jacques_chester »

javert wrote: post #92
jacques_chester wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working on something very much like that.

Bravo :D By the way, I think the sweet spot for this is online journalism, where there is a need for very high-quality content, but ads never have been sufficient and never will be. In other words, a way to save our beloved newspapers.

My original source of inspiration was "how do I make money off the blog network I run, and give some money to my bloggers as well?"

The model I have in mind will suit news media, sites like PA, discussion fora like HN and web applications as well. In my draft pitch I say that I am proposing to "reinvent the internet economy" and I feel that I'm only engaging in a modest amount of hyperbole.

Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#97

Post by javert »

jacques_chester wrote: post #96
javert wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bravo :D By the way, I think the sweet spot for this is online journalism, where there is a need for very high-quality content, but ads never have been sufficient and never will be. In other words, a way to save our beloved newspapers.

My original source of inspiration was "how do I make money off the blog network I run, and give some money to my bloggers as well?" The model I have in mind will suit news media, sites like PA, discussion fora like HN and web applications as well. In my draft pitch I say that I am proposing to "reinvent the internet economy" and I feel that I'm only engaging in a modest amount of hyperbole.

That is fabulous. I want to develop a site that shows statistics of a certain kind (won't get into that here), and it would be great if I could charge people a very very small fee to see them. I don't know if your product would suit that need as well.

I was trying to think of helpful suggestions, but couldn't really think of any. The only thing I can think to tell you is that if the business involves bitcoin, you could probably get a lot of loyal early adopters and raise some decent seed funding at http://glbse.com (however, it's a legally gray area right now).

Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#98

Post by jacques_chester »

javert wrote: post #97
jacques_chester wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My original source of inspiration was "how do I make money off the blog network I run, and give some money to my bloggers as well?" The model I have in mind will suit news media, sites like PA, discussion fora like HN and web applications as well. In my draft pitch I say that I am proposing to "reinvent the internet economy" and I feel that I'm only engaging in a modest amount of hyperbole.

That is fabulous. I want to develop a site that shows statistics of a certain kind (won't get into that here), and it would be great if I could charge people a very very small fee to see them. I don't know if your product would suit that need as well. I was trying to think of helpful suggestions, but couldn't really think of any. The only thing I can think to tell you is that if the business involves bitcoin, you cou…

> I don't know if your product would suit that need as well.

Somewhat. If you install my software on your server, you get a portion of money from my user's subscription. I call the model "microsubscription".

As for bitcoin, I'm trying to be as currency-agnostic as possible (not least because I'm in Australia). However I probably couldn't support it right out of the gate because the inter-currency exchange market is not as well developed as it is for major currencies.

For example, suppose I have website X, expecting to be paid in AUD and subscriber Y who wants to pay in bitcoin. At settlement time, it will be hard to find a buyer for bitcoin in AUD, so I will probably have to go through USD first. I'm not hugely keen on that because of the complexity and transaction costs.

Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#99

Post by lifeguard »

I love PA. I hate kickstarter because it is operated in a disorganized manner so I feel like I have been bait & switched.

See comment by "Joseph P. - PLEDGE THIS. "

Penny Arcade's violations of Kickstarter guidelines:

1) This is for an open-ended project 2) The funding covers business expenses 3) The rewards are not produced by the creators

Re: Penny Arcade Sells Out

#100

Post by kalleboo »

jacques_chester wrote: post #80
kalleboo wrote: post #39

I really really wish the flattr model would take off for stuff like this. Each and every site having a huge fundraiser once a year like this seems unsustainable.

Flattr won't work for the same reason as every other tipjar system has failed. It imposes a transaction cost on the tipper -- "is this work the click?" -- that users simply don't like. My current startup work is aimed at avoiding that cost entirely.

> It imposes a transaction cost on the tipper -- "is this work the click?"

Since you have a set monthly amount that's just split up among your clicks, I don't see how that's true. You can click on every single site you browse to and it'll just split up your $15/mo "web budget" thinner and thinner among the sites.

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