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In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

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Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#341

Post by mandmandam »

Jensson wrote: post #316
mandmandam wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yesterdays vapid conspicuous consumption is tomorrows minimum living standard. The way of life of our billionaires is threatening all life on the planet, particularly the poorest [0]. There might not be a living standard if we don't fix this issue. 0 - https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/billionaires-emit-mo...

It isn't the billionaires emitting that, it is all the factories they own that produce products for the middle class. If the middle class didn't consume those then they wouldn't have been made and the pollution wouldn't be there. Billionaires emit a bit more, but not that much more. Note the very disingeneous comment here: > tracks the emissions from private jets, yachts and polluting investments "Private jets" and "…

> Oxfam found that, on average, 50 of the world’s richest billionaires took 184 flights in a single year, spending 425 hours in the air —producing as much carbon as the average person would in 300 years. In the same period, their yachts emitted as much carbon as the average person would in 860 years.

That's not "a bit more". That's insane.

And there's absolutely nothing disingenuous about it, because the article clearly states:

> the average investment emissions of 50 of the world’s richest billionaires are around 340 times their emissions from private jets and superyachts combined.

> Through these investments, billionaires have huge influence over some of the world’s biggest corporations and are driving us over the edge of climate disaster.

... I don't know why this isn't convincing to you, but it's not Oxfam's fault.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#342

Post by FredPret »

Nevermark wrote: post #340
cess11 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I come across as insecure? What "success"? The stuff that other people have made happen that he takes credit for?

> Why are you taking hits for him? Does he somehow pay your bills? I responded to your pointless, inaccurate and rude conjecture with an equally pointless, rude, and what I assumed was an equally inaccurate conjecture to suggest that perhaps we keep our conversation substantive. If the sense in that still isn’t clear, you might check out the guidelines on this site for keeping discussion constructive. > What "success…

We've seen an explosion in time spent looking at second-hand information online in recent decades - social media & news. I think a healthier way is to get information direct from the source, and from going and doing things.

I think some people responded to the deluge of slop by clutching out their connection to reality and relying solely on a couple of third parties for their worldview.

There's no point in arguing with someone who looks at Elon Musk and cannot see success because they can only look at him through a thick lens of ideology and tribalism. Five, ten years ago, some these same people probably thought he was in their tribe and idolized him then. Ten years ago, they probably liked Trump and his shows too.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#343

Post by cess11 »

FredPret wrote: post #342
Nevermark wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you taking hits for him? Does he somehow pay your bills? I responded to your pointless, inaccurate and rude conjecture with an equally pointless, rude, and what I assumed was an equally inaccurate conjecture to suggest that perhaps we keep our conversation substantive. If the sense in that still isn’t clear, you might check out the guidelines on this site for keeping discussion constructive. > What "success…

We've seen an explosion in time spent looking at second-hand information online in recent decades - social media & news. I think a healthier way is to get information direct from the source, and from going and doing things. I think some people responded to the deluge of slop by clutching out their connection to reality and relying solely on a couple of third parties for their worldview. There's no point in arguing wi…

I think it's the other way around. My interlocutor above has a "thick lens of ideology and tribalism".

This is why they're being very unspecific and arguing like a child from a position of conviction, "this is the most evident thing there ever was".

I've never had a keen eye to people that ride on the labour of other people and take credit for their work. Gossip magazines just don't work on me, and I don't trust the rich when they say they're "progressive" or whatever, like Musk did before. If they meant what they say, they'd get rid of their riches and return to society.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#344

Post by cess11 »

FredPret wrote: post #339
cess11 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascism is a phase under capitalism where ideology breaks down and the people in power are split between going into hiding and panicked power grabs through any means available. Typically it involves ultra-nationalists taking formal political power and increasing the capitalist totalitarian impulse. The state is much, much more "all-embracing" today than what Mussolini could ever have imagined, and has been for a long…

[flagged]

I'll consider setting up a terrarium but it'll take a month or two to get started. Where I live there is no grass outdoors at this time of year but I can probably find Festuca rubra seeds in the back of certain stores.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#345

Post by kbelder »

jaybrendansmith wrote: post #286
Sam6late wrote: post #70

My 2 cents: 1- 'The Department of Education’s most recent survey, released in June, was sensational: it found that text comprehension skills of 13-year-olds had declined an average of four points since the Covid-affected school year of 2019-2020, and more alarmingly that the average drop was seven points compared with the 2012 figure. The results for the worst-performing students fell below the reading skill level re…

Don't worry. When the next administration gets rid of the Department of Education, we won't have any idea how bad things are.

The Department of Education was founded in 1980. Are you worried we'll lose all the massive improvements in education we've seen since then?

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#346

Post by Nevermark »

cess11 wrote: post #343
FredPret wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've seen an explosion in time spent looking at second-hand information online in recent decades - social media & news. I think a healthier way is to get information direct from the source, and from going and doing things. I think some people responded to the deluge of slop by clutching out their connection to reality and relying solely on a couple of third parties for their worldview. There's no point in arguing wi…

I think it's the other way around. My interlocutor above has a "thick lens of ideology and tribalism". This is why they're being very unspecific and arguing like a child from a position of conviction, "this is the most evident thing there ever was". I've never had a keen eye to people that ride on the labour of other people and take credit for their work. Gossip magazines just don't work on me, and I don't trust the…

> My interlocutor above has a "thick lens of ideology and tribalism". This is why they're being very unspecific and arguing like a child from a position of conviction, "this is the most evident thing there ever was".

There you go again, making up my back story despite having no idea who I am.

It is rude, but worse than that, a waste of words.

I would insert another whimsical parody, referring back to you, but that somehow threw you last time.

So I will just repeat:

> Is that really the kind of conversation we want to have?

> you might check out the guidelines on this site for keeping discussion constructive.

--

It isn't controversial, nor should it require a complex justification to say with some confidence, that the richest person on the planet has been "successful". Widely documented synonym: "prosperous", i.e. achieving great wealth.

>> "this is the most evident thing there ever was".

I will be more precise and less rhetorical: based on the meanings of the words "successful", "prosperous" and "richest person on the planet" it is as close to a tautology as informal human language allows.

--

> I don't trust the rich when they say they're "progressive" or whatever, like Musk did before. If they meant what they say, they'd get rid of their riches and return to society.

"Progressive" doesn't mean charitable.

As has been pointed out to you already, reading and using words consistent with their widely documented meanings will help you communicate better, and communicate something coherent, beyond simply projecting strong dislike and distrust of Musk.

But, I am sympathetic to that viewpoint as was evident from my first comment.

Musk has not lived up to values he previously espoused. And he routinely demonstrates deep hypocrisy relative to principles he claims to value today.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#347

Post by infinite8s »

nataliste wrote: post #192
vacuity wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I envision that meme of having large bookshelves filled with books, something I could show off to friends as a proof that there is still plenty to be found in books, that I've found valuable in books. That on some days I might take the time to sit down, brew some tea or something, and read a book.

>The writer Umberto Eco belongs to that small class of scholars who are encyclopedic, insightful, and nondull. He is the owner of a large personal library (containing thirty thousand books), and separates visitors into two categories: those who react with “Wow! Signore professore dottore Eco, what a library you have! How many of these books have you read?” and the others — a very small minority — who get the point th…

This quote is great! Where is it from?

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#348

Post by nataliste »

infinite8s wrote: post #347
nataliste wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The writer Umberto Eco belongs to that small class of scholars who are encyclopedic, insightful, and nondull. He is the owner of a large personal library (containing thirty thousand books), and separates visitors into two categories: those who react with “Wow! Signore professore dottore Eco, what a library you have! How many of these books have you read?” and the others — a very small minority — who get the point th…

This quote is great! Where is it from?

The Black Swan - Nassim Taleb, Introduction to Part 1

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#349

Post by sn9 »

llm_trw wrote: post #288
akkartik wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I had to look closely as well to figure out what this was saying. The core reasoning seems to be this one sentence: "Printed books are a zone of resistance against the neon god of the algorithm since tinkering with code can’t delete their contents, as hackers recently did with the Internet Archive." But you don't have to retreat from software entirely. You can read offline to keep someone over the network from…

If only there was a place starting with p and ending with "irate bay" where you could get forever copies of books.

Books last longer than hard drives.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#350

Post by hju22_-3 »

Jensson wrote: post #314
martin82 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is reading HN comments also passive consumption that destroys ones self? Asking for a friend...

Not if you scan for opportunities to write comments, lurkers yeah maybe but not active users.

Nay, even commenting is often pointless. HN likes to overly articulate drivel more often than not. Indeed, even this very comment is pointless, because what does it really add but another section in another chain of pointless drivel? Socializing is human. Any and all communication platforms like forums, or even Twitter, work to capitalize on the needless want to contribute something. Which is often unnecessary. I'd argue that lurking is often the smarter choice.

Not that books are exempt from the same problem. Many of them are pointless or suck too, but that's just part of living in a flawed world.

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