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Tim O'Reilly: The Biggest Ponzi Scheme of Them All

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Re: Tim O'Reilly: The Biggest Ponzi Scheme of Them All

#41

Post by Maascamp »

swombat wrote: post #8

Oh come on now. It's like they said in an article I read recently... the world has learned about Ponzi schemes, and now everything is a Ponzi scheme. At these macro-economic levels, there can be no talk of "Ponzi schemes". The economy is not an investment vehicle, it's a huge, loose, and fantastic agreement that enables all of us to get far more (in terms of technology, resources, comfort, life expectancy, health, ha…

This is a straw man argument. Saying "now everything is a Ponzi scheme" doesn't address his point that we're going to have to start looking at how a global steady state economy will work.

He isn't saying Capitalism isn't the best system, he's saying (precisely as you have said) that it won't last forever in it's current form. That we should start thinking about the repercussions of our current model so when this model becomes unsustainable, we'll already be transitioned into the new.

I certainly see no problem in thinking about our future instead of refusing to look ahead because... well it's going so well right now we shouldn't rock the boat.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: The Biggest Ponzi Scheme of Them All

#42

Post by yters »

swombat wrote: post #8

Oh come on now. It's like they said in an article I read recently... the world has learned about Ponzi schemes, and now everything is a Ponzi scheme. At these macro-economic levels, there can be no talk of "Ponzi schemes". The economy is not an investment vehicle, it's a huge, loose, and fantastic agreement that enables all of us to get far more (in terms of technology, resources, comfort, life expectancy, health, ha…

Another annoying thing is that people think a certain structure is a Ponzi scheme, when really it is the parameters of the structure. What might be a Ponzi scheme in one generation is social security in a shorter living, more prolific generation.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: The Biggest Ponzi Scheme of Them All

#43

Post by Retric »

Maascamp wrote: post #41
swombat wrote: post #8

Oh come on now. It's like they said in an article I read recently... the world has learned about Ponzi schemes, and now everything is a Ponzi scheme. At these macro-economic levels, there can be no talk of "Ponzi schemes". The economy is not an investment vehicle, it's a huge, loose, and fantastic agreement that enables all of us to get far more (in terms of technology, resources, comfort, life expectancy, health, ha…

This is a straw man argument. Saying "now everything is a Ponzi scheme" doesn't address his point that we're going to have to start looking at how a global steady state economy will work. He isn't saying Capitalism isn't the best system, he's saying (precisely as you have said) that it won't last forever in it's current form. That we should start thinking about the repercussions of our current model so when this mode…

Capitalism works just fine in a steady state economy because things break down. Buildings need to be repaired, styles change etc. Just look look at the plumbing industry it can grow or shrink but when your sink is broken and you don't know how to fix it you call someone.

Unless you're suggesting some form of utopia where people don't need to eat and nothing ever breaks. But even then someone is going to setup an MMO and the cycle of pretend money can start all over again.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: The Biggest Ponzi Scheme of Them All

#44

Post by dantheman »

Maascamp wrote: post #41
swombat wrote: post #8

Oh come on now. It's like they said in an article I read recently... the world has learned about Ponzi schemes, and now everything is a Ponzi scheme. At these macro-economic levels, there can be no talk of "Ponzi schemes". The economy is not an investment vehicle, it's a huge, loose, and fantastic agreement that enables all of us to get far more (in terms of technology, resources, comfort, life expectancy, health, ha…

This is a straw man argument. Saying "now everything is a Ponzi scheme" doesn't address his point that we're going to have to start looking at how a global steady state economy will work. He isn't saying Capitalism isn't the best system, he's saying (precisely as you have said) that it won't last forever in it's current form. That we should start thinking about the repercussions of our current model so when this mode…

what the article talks about is not a ponzi scheme... so it's not a straw man, the article may be of merit but any comparison to a ponzi scheme merely confuses the issue.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: The Biggest Ponzi Scheme of Them All

#45

Post by gaius »

Maascamp wrote: post #41
swombat wrote: post #8

Oh come on now. It's like they said in an article I read recently... the world has learned about Ponzi schemes, and now everything is a Ponzi scheme. At these macro-economic levels, there can be no talk of "Ponzi schemes". The economy is not an investment vehicle, it's a huge, loose, and fantastic agreement that enables all of us to get far more (in terms of technology, resources, comfort, life expectancy, health, ha…

This is a straw man argument. Saying "now everything is a Ponzi scheme" doesn't address his point that we're going to have to start looking at how a global steady state economy will work. He isn't saying Capitalism isn't the best system, he's saying (precisely as you have said) that it won't last forever in it's current form. That we should start thinking about the repercussions of our current model so when this mode…

start looking at how a global steady state economy will work

Err, except that we don't. That kind of thinking is a fallacy, that there is only economic value in tangible items. There is literally (in the sense that it is not bounded by how much stuff there is) no limit on the economic value that can be created through services and intangible assets such as information.

A microprocessor is worth more than the sand it's made from. Where did that value come from?

Re: Tim O'Reilly: The Biggest Ponzi Scheme of Them All

#46

Post by gaius »

walterk wrote: post #19
swombat wrote: post #8

Oh come on now. It's like they said in an article I read recently... the world has learned about Ponzi schemes, and now everything is a Ponzi scheme. At these macro-economic levels, there can be no talk of "Ponzi schemes". The economy is not an investment vehicle, it's a huge, loose, and fantastic agreement that enables all of us to get far more (in terms of technology, resources, comfort, life expectancy, health, ha…

It's simply being used as a metaphor. Two words that get you to look at X from a particular angle. The function of metaphors has never been to imply complete equivalence, obviously. Rather, some aspects of the concept used as a metaphor are shared with aspects of the concept it's being likened to. By invoking the metaphor, those aspects are made salient. http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=xpYZoVNzdykC&... Notions…

Metaphors are a Ponzi scheme.
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