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If not React, then what?

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Re: If not React, then what?

#31

Post by alex_smart »

xcrunner529 wrote: post #15
dimgl wrote: post #4

> Frameworkism isn't delivering. It isn't? I find React to be great to work with.

Yes, you the developer. I think that’s his point. The performance if react sites is another thing and that’s what the user cares about. It also doesn’t work on mobile. React native was worshipped and now is thrown out.

Is it even working for the developer though? Last I checked the server-side rendering performance for react based frameworks was somewhere like 200 pages per second? Is that something to be proud of as a developer?

Re: If not React, then what?

#33

Post by wiseowise »

> It's the rewarding side of real engineering, trying out new materials under well-understood constraints to improve user outcomes.

Good thing we’re mostly keeping the attitude to hobby projects.

Can’t imagine hundreds of artisans™ bikeshedding over what the hell this even means.

And I can’t read with a straight face an article talking about complexity of React while suggesting Vue (sic!) as an alternative. Lol!

Re: If not React, then what?

#34

Post by robertoandred »

xcrunner529 wrote: post #15
dimgl wrote: post #4

> Frameworkism isn't delivering. It isn't? I find React to be great to work with.

Yes, you the developer. I think that’s his point. The performance if react sites is another thing and that’s what the user cares about. It also doesn’t work on mobile. React native was worshipped and now is thrown out.

React is absolutely performant. A developer who makes a slow React site would make a slow site with something else.

Re: If not React, then what?

#35

Post by dottjt »

QuiDortDine wrote: post #7

WOW this is a long article! Still waiting for the substance though... The only point I can agree with is that React is stupidly hard to learn. It feels like a tool made for aliens, though once you master it, it can be pretty efficient. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the JS-free web isn't coming back. And if you're using modern JS, you might as well use React (or a similar tool). The user won't be able to tel…

As someone who's been doing React since the beginning, I would agree that it's hard starting out.

However, I think any new paradigm is difficult starting out. Recently I've been learning OO for work and I've been finding it stupidly hard and entirely unintuitive.

Re: If not React, then what?

#36

Post by ganksalot »

hu3 wrote: post #11
ganksalot wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

o7 thanks, people like this who do not work in contexts with problems that React solves yet insist React is not solving problems are profoundly boring.

No need for personal attacks. And there's also the other side: people who insist in overusing React. Perhaps that's what the author refers to. I for one have see HTMX eat React for breakfast in a few of my clients during consulting.

> No need for personal attacks.

i don't know about all that, but this is an incredibly tired diatribe.

> Perhaps that's what the author refers to.

they are clearly not.

Re: If not React, then what?

#37

Post by simonw »

A fun thing about reading Alex is that you can tell he's had the same arguments over and over again for a decade now and he's frustrated with having to keep on making the same points and getting the exact same responses.

Most of the people commenting on this piece won't have read this whole article (it's long, and internet attention spans are short). As a result, you'll find plenty of the comments here were exactly predicted by his writing.

I see him as something of a Cassandra at this point, doomed to see the truth about web performance based on many years of research... and then to have nobody believe him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra

Re: If not React, then what?

#38

Post by xcrunner529 »

robertoandred wrote: post #34
xcrunner529 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you the developer. I think that’s his point. The performance if react sites is another thing and that’s what the user cares about. It also doesn’t work on mobile. React native was worshipped and now is thrown out.

React is absolutely performant. A developer who makes a slow React site would make a slow site with something else.

Tell that to all the former PHP developers. Where are these performant React sites? The largest and best tech companies out there certainly can’t do it.

Re: If not React, then what?

#39

Post by pyrolistical »

One of the under appreciated reason why spa took off is it exploits the lower cdn cost.

Things that generate html on the server side need to pay for the higher bandwidth costs that are hard to cache well.

In the other hand with spa, a well configured cdn can have a short ttl on index.html and cache the unique per deployment js bundles forever.

The only server bandwidth cost is the actual api data

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