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Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

economist.com

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Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#51

Post by drexlspivey »

Xunjin wrote: post #40
drexlspivey wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a state be needed for a free market? The old American west is a recent example of no formal state with a free market.

When you mean old is when? Also would love you to expand on this too.

Roughly 1830-1890. I am referring to frontier territories before/during the westward expansion. There were mining/cattle towns (eg Deadwood). There was no official federal or state government yet.

They operated under a free market obviously (you could trade with anyone, no taxes or levies). Disputes were resolved through arbitration or informal courts. They relied on private lawmen or hired security (Pinkertons)

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#52

Post by drexlspivey »

theoa wrote: post #49
drexlspivey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably current singapore or 80s Hong Kong

I lived in Hong Kong from 1981 to 1991. * Overflowing with optimism and "can do" * Equal protection under the law no matter the origin * Max tax 15% for all * Education and health benefits for all (accepting always flaws somewhere) * Anti-corruption was effective (ICAC) * Straightforward process to become a voting legal immigrant for non-Chinese * Many people speaking English, various Chinese dialects, Tagalog and mo…

Milton Friedman made a documentary about it https://youtu.be/xqh0zXSd4vc

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#53

Post by fire_lake »

drexlspivey wrote: post #20
ks2048 wrote: post #15

I wonder if Milei could choose a (country + year) as the ideal model (or closest to it) for how a state should be run, what would he choose?

Probably current singapore or 80s Hong Kong

Hong Kong is dense, tiny, central and resource poor.

Isn’t Argentina basically the opposite?

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#54

Post by dwaltrip »

drexlspivey wrote: post #51
Xunjin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you mean old is when? Also would love you to expand on this too.

Roughly 1830-1890. I am referring to frontier territories before/during the westward expansion. There were mining/cattle towns (eg Deadwood). There was no official federal or state government yet. They operated under a free market obviously (you could trade with anyone, no taxes or levies). Disputes were resolved through arbitration or informal courts. They relied on private lawmen or hired security (Pinkertons)

Aw yes, the frontier Wild West, famously known for peace and stability.

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#56

Post by elforce002 »

Xunjin wrote: post #38
meiraleal wrote: post #22

What people don't talk about is that the good things the new administration achieved came with a big price: an expected drop of close to 4% in GDP. With the expectation of recovering it fast next year. So next year is the turning point for Milei, if the recession ends or intensifies. A shrinking economy with smaller inflation but in recession is worse than a growing economy with higher inflation. Also the GDP drop sh…

Let's not forget the social numbers. Reuters: BUENOS AIRES, Sept 26 (Reuters) - Argentina's poverty rate rocketed to 52.9% in the first half of 2024, the government's INDEC statistics agency said on Thursday, surging from 40.1% a year earlier. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-poverty-rat...

He explained that on Lex Fridman's podcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NLzc9kobDk

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#58

Post by rayiner »

orwin wrote: post #44
rayiner wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> virtually all Africans [...] have a fundamentally paternalistic view of the state Yeah, no, clearly not. Go in Western Sahara, visit touaregs, ask them about states and what they think of them. Go in eastern Africa, talk to them about libertarianism (Kenya, Zambia, Mozambique). In Ethiopia, you'll probably find the highest concentration of libertarians in the world, they call themselves "Horn Anarchists" i think. M…

That’s a fair point, but what percentage of the population of Africa does that encompass? Where I’m from, the people have been under the boot of empires for 2,000 years. I’m sure there are plenty of individual Asians who are libertarians. But any system that allowed free immigration from Asia would import a population where 99% are going to be statists.

To juxtapose my experience with yours: I don’t hang out in libertarian organizations. But I am Asian and know lots of Asians, and I know a fair number of Africans and middle easterners because of my dad’s social circle in international development. I know zero libertarians who aren’t of European or African American descent.

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#59

Post by luzojeda »

marcosdumay wrote: post #39
luzojeda wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everyone I know and all newspapers I read here, in Argentina, do talk about that. The cost is an inevitable one when you reach 3 digits inflation. Hope we learn our lesson though we didn't in the 2000s when we brought inflation again. To give anyone reading this perspective, Argentina had inflation for almost 80 years, only a brief pause in the 90s and then again since the 2003. What other way is there?

> What other way is there? Remember that inflation is something the government chooses to create. It's not some natural disaster. The other way is to remove the power to create it from the executive leader and give it to some institution that is more stable.

Of course but once you have 3 digits inflation, what other way to reduce is there besides cutting the supply of money suddenly in a shock? People won't like it, I didn't like it either but the two other presidents tried various methods such as price controls and that didn't help, on the contrary.

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#60

Post by luzojeda »

wslh wrote: post #37
luzojeda wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My two cents even tho I'm afraid this thread might become a political battleground: I'm from Argentina and 30 years old, of course he led us to a recession but for the first time in my adult life I can keep prices in my head and I know next month they'll be pretty much the same. Some people who never experienced +10% inflation in a month can't even imagine that and I understand it. I for one like this stability, dunn…

> I'm from Argentina and 30 years old.. There’s a saying: “In Argentina, everything changes every day, but if you come back after ten years, nothing has changed.” In your case, you were born around 1994. Until you were about six years old, if you went to the supermarket with your family, you could probably keep track of prices in your head. By the time you were 16, the inflation rate was likely double what it is now.…

I don't think so because except for the 90s Argentina had inflation since the 1950s[0]. That 70 years old would only remember the 90s as the most stable period. Sure, the 60s weren't that bad but we still had high inflation.

[0]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Ar... (just note the Y axis scale... if it were from 0 to 100 you would truly see there were very few years with 1 digit inflation)

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