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In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

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Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#311

Post by Woeps »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #229
southernplaces7 wrote: post #223

The title and apparent argument of this confound me somewhat. For those of us who read many, many books very frequently, but stick mostly to digital versions simply out of space and access convenience, it's not hard to feel as if we're somehow being looked down upon because we're not hauling around a bundle of weighty tomes.. Why should print be so specifically necessary if a book's content is what defines it? That I…

I read digital and dead tree, but there is a spatial understanding I gain from books that I don't get with ebooks. Like, if I want to re find a passage, I usually have a physical sense of where in the book it is, and can flip to it within 10 or 20 pages. That's the major difference for me at least between the two.

This, also writing on the page for notes or underlining for curiosities are for me just easier to do in a paper book then on a e-reader.

But that's just me being stuck in my ways. So and I see the use of digital versions as well. Specially as a lot of my technical books now often coming with a digital copy! It's best of both worlds.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#312

Post by create-username »

kleinsch wrote: post #219
mlsu wrote: post #195

The experience of passive consumption (cable TV, tiktok, etc, pointed out in another comment here) is essentially the experience of psychological obliteration. When you get sucked into reels, you go from "here" to "there," and in the process, while you are "there," your entire whole self is destroyed. The same psychological phenomena happens to gambling addicts, alcoholics, or users of heroin. It has fewer physiologi…

You’re commenting on an article about reading, which is also a solitary passive consumption activity. I suspect you’re not trying to make the point that reading books destroys relationships and self construction, so this seems like a roundabout way of saying that your favored passive consumption activity is better than what other people choose.

Reading, watching TV and using computers probably contributed to making me an idiot.

The family exodus, the nuclear family, the society of purchasers probably didn’t helped that much either.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#313

Post by plewd »

djbusby wrote: post #258
dlkf wrote: post #257

There is no epistemological collapse. Access to accurate information has never been so fast nor so easy. To be sure, lies are spread on the internet - but people believed all sorts of bullshit before the internet. Those who want to claim there is a crisis don’t have a principled argument as to how things are worse.

I frequently hear there are more lies and they spread even faster in 2024 than 2014 and for sure faster than 1994.

But surely there are also more truths, and they spread faster than ever before? The amount of lies has increased but so has the amount of information in general, any question you have can be answered within 10 seconds.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#314

Post by Jensson »

martin82 wrote: post #295
mlsu wrote: post #195

The experience of passive consumption (cable TV, tiktok, etc, pointed out in another comment here) is essentially the experience of psychological obliteration. When you get sucked into reels, you go from "here" to "there," and in the process, while you are "there," your entire whole self is destroyed. The same psychological phenomena happens to gambling addicts, alcoholics, or users of heroin. It has fewer physiologi…

Is reading HN comments also passive consumption that destroys ones self? Asking for a friend...

Not if you scan for opportunities to write comments, lurkers yeah maybe but not active users.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#315

Post by Jensson »

mandmandam wrote: post #306
llm_trw wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having a hard time understanding what your complaint is. That the worlds premier capitalist publication publishes facts capitalists find useful? Yes. Also bears shit in the woods.

> I'm having a hard time understanding what your complaint is. That the word reliable was being used to describe the FT. 'Reliable' within a certain narrow context for the people trashing our potential (ie, the capital class)? Yes. 'Reliable' within a broader context, where we get to the root causes of our catastrophic inequality, our over extraction of resources, our environmental destruction, our war mongering lead…

> 'Reliable' within a broader context, where we get to the root causes of our catastrophic inequality, our over extraction of resources, our environmental destruction, our war mongering leaders, etc? Also yes; but in precisely the wrong way. They can be relied on to support whatever makes the yacht class more money in the next few quarters.

They are financial news, if you want to read news or opinion articles about other topics go read something else. Something being important doesn't mean it should be written about everywhere.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#316

Post by Jensson »

mandmandam wrote: post #307
llm_trw wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And anyone who calls out vapid conspicuous consumption, or the greedy exploitation of the planet for personal gain, that's not obviously perverse to you; it's just one person's opinion and easily disregarded - because they're not the final word on genuine understanding? Pretty much, yes. Yesterdays vapid conspicuous consumption is tomorrows minimum living standard. Three meals a day every day forever? Even medieval…

> Yesterdays vapid conspicuous consumption is tomorrows minimum living standard. The way of life of our billionaires is threatening all life on the planet, particularly the poorest [0]. There might not be a living standard if we don't fix this issue. 0 - https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/billionaires-emit-mo...

It isn't the billionaires emitting that, it is all the factories they own that produce products for the middle class. If the middle class didn't consume those then they wouldn't have been made and the pollution wouldn't be there.

Billionaires emit a bit more, but not that much more.

Note the very disingeneous comment here:

> tracks the emissions from private jets, yachts and polluting investments

"Private jets" and "polluting investments" were in the same sentence as if they were in the same ballpark, but its the investments that count for almost everything and they would be polluting regardless if the billionaires owned them or not.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#317

Post by cess11 »

Nevermark wrote: post #310
cess11 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, most of the reporting from "his organizations" is about how they defend themselves against him and blow the whistle about security concerns, plus the union busting and wage theft and so on. Plus the story about how Thiel kicked him out to save PayPal. Both Tesla and SpaceX are military labs behind plausible deniability, dual-use aprons. Hence they're run to a larger extent by people who aren't him and he works li…

This is hogwash. Dramatic exits after successful acquisitions are common. You have to earn “failures” like that. That created SpaceX’s seed capital. (You can’t have it both ways. If he had convinced the US to bankroll him, that would have been serious business acumen.) Minor success on hard problems, with a shoe string budget, and an attractive business plan (vertical integration, fast-failure iteration, reusability)…

Thiel put him aside before the IPO, which was before Ebay bought them.

There's been a lot of reporting about how SpaceX is keeping Musk's influence at a minimum. If you go looking you'll also find video from interviews with Musk in that role where he isn't talking from a script and comes across as a clueless high schooler.

Why are you taking hits for him? Does he somehow pay your bills?

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#318

Post by FredPret »

cess11 wrote: post #305
FredPret wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Douche No accounting for taste > born into ... wealth It's a very minor thing in the big picture to be born into a 3rd world country like South Africa's top 1%. > criminal wealth His dad likely had some dodgy dealings, but there's every indication that he made the bulk of his money legally. Anyway, how does that reflect on Musk? Did we go back to "sins of the fathers"? > organisations he ends up in needs to protect…

Apartheid was a crime. SA occupying and running mining operations in other countries was criminal. Profiting from it means you're accumulating criminal wealth. Mistaking first-mover advantage and access to extreme amounts of funding for "kick ass" is quite weird. No, that's not a characteristic of fascism. He's impressed by and promotes nazis, maintains his wealth through corporativism, and so on. No, it's that he ma…

Just going to drill into a couple of aspects of your rant.

First, fascism is a totalitarian ideology. You could have googled it yourself instead of parroting what The View tells you. It demands 100% subordination of individual interests in service of the state. Here's a quote from Mussolini: "The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist" [0] From his support of Trump and DOGE, we can conclude that he's the opposite of a fascist and wants to reduce the state. He's much more Millei than Mussolini. This is so elementary I'm a little confused as to why I have to spell it out.

Here's some more homework for you: [1]. Words like Nazi and Fascist and Communist have meanings. If we want to have a civilized society, we must first respect the meanings of words so that we can have a conversation.

Second: name a Nazi that Musk likes. Before you say Trump, here's Trump's Fine People speech. Watch the whole thing, then tell me he's a Nazi. Then also keep in mind the massive "Trump calls Nazis Fine People" hoax the media has been banging on about ever since: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGKbFA7HW-U

Here's one of him disavowing the KKK many times over a long period: https://x.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/897112536574828544

Third, Musk is known for making wild promises, many of which are as yet undone. Nobody would care who he is if that was all there is to him. But some of his wild promises are real and part of everyday life.

Fourth, if you think he wins due to extreme funding, go read the stories of Zip2, Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX. All of the above teetered on the brink of nonexistence due to being bootstrapped by Musk who was then strapped for cash.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#319

Post by rixed »

tgv wrote: post #213
rixed wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> secondary school pupils aren't able to pass maths and physics exams from 30 or 40 years ago But can pupils from 30 or 40 years ago pass today's exams?

I actually did a few math exams recently (I was helping someone study for them), and they were really too easy. I had a hard time catching up with uni maths after breezing through secondary school, but if they nowadays enter with that level, it must be a nightmare.

Interesting but that's still not a totally fair comparison because the you of 30 years ago might have found them harder.

Re: In Praise of Print: Reading Is Essential in an Era of Epistemological Collapse

#320

Post by rixed »

esafak wrote: post #296
marcosdumay wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did the printing press started a revolution in knowledge, or wars of religions? That's a great question. The answer is very well known. It started both.

The Ottoman sultans saw those wars and banned the press. The missed the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution, and eventually disappeared.

They were also a bit far from the Americas, which might have contributed to the economic boom of Europe more than the faster spreading of new ideas via books, no?
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