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Cybertruck's Many Recalls

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Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#451

Post by m463 »

austin-cheney wrote: post #218

Why are people spending so much money for something so hideous and so defective? Is this a weird fashion thing? My old 2017 Kia Soul costs about 5x less and has had 0 defects.

Well it does go 0-60 in ~3 seconds. the fully enclosed bed is kind of interesting. It handles like a nimble car, not a truck. It drives itself.

..and it looks weird. It doesn't have a dashboard in front of you, or even drive select or turn signal stalks.

I suspect a lot of EV stuff is adjacent to "the ikea effect".

When you struggle with something you get more attached.

With the cybertruck, you have to learn all the ev stuff like range and charging.

And the cybertruck specific stuff, like opening the door, and helping your passenger open theirs. Ignoring the rearview mirror and using the cameras. And figuring out the gear selection. And learning all the many settings, like steering or suspension. And get it to drive itself.

I think once people have conquered that, they minimize the ridiculous stuff and over emphasize the rest.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#452

Post by TeMPOraL »

lapcat wrote: post #448
schiffern wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article didn't even mention inconvenience. That's a red herring It's not a red herring, it's the primary point I was making. Point is, the impression most people will undeniably take away from "many recalls" is that the vehicle must be in the shop all the time, and it's a terrible customer experience. This impression is of course incorrect. Remember that most readers don't even read past the headline. You and I…

> My point is, the impression many people will unavoidably take away from "many recalls" is that the vehicle must me in the shop all the time, and it's a terrible customer experience. I still think you're missing the point. The biggest problem from many recalls is not time spent in the shop; rather, the biggest problem from many recalls is many vehicle safety defects that are deemed worthy of a recall. In other words…

> Do we really need to care about these people?

Yes, because it's most people. It's most of your addressable market, whatever you're selling. It's also their siblings and parents and spouses. Some of mine, too. Possibly even yours.

> it's very hard to write a fully informative, fully accurate headline (...) I have no doubt that the news media experience the same problem. There's no good solution for willful ignorance.

This is a problem too, but it's not the problem. The problem is that a lot of the news headlines intentionally lie. The pattern is, put a purposefully misleading statement in the headline, then correct it in the article. The lie works as clickbait, but it's not its only effect: everyone in publishing knows most people don't read past headline - that's simply because they'll see 10 or 100 headlines for any single article they can afford to read. Even the non-willfully ignorant will be exposed to 99 simplistic lies for each nuanced opinion.

> I really have zero sympathy for how non-readers of articles ignorantly misinterpret headlines. You can't idiot-proof the news.

For any article, those "non-readers" are by far the vast majority of people exposed to it. You can't really prevent it, as it's a function of the amount of news. But you also shouldn't exploit it to sell people lies and propaganda.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#453

Post by lapcat »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #452
lapcat wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is, the impression many people will unavoidably take away from "many recalls" is that the vehicle must me in the shop all the time, and it's a terrible customer experience. I still think you're missing the point. The biggest problem from many recalls is not time spent in the shop; rather, the biggest problem from many recalls is many vehicle safety defects that are deemed worthy of a recall. In other words…

> Do we really need to care about these people? Yes, because it's most people . It's most of your addressable market, whatever you're selling. It's also their siblings and parents and spouses. Some of mine, too. Possibly even yours. > it's very hard to write a fully informative, fully accurate headline (...) I have no doubt that the news media experience the same problem. There's no good solution for willful ignoranc…

> Yes, because it's most people. It's most of your addressable market, whatever you're selling. It's also their siblings and parents and spouses. Some of mine, too. Possibly even yours.

No, this is vastly overstated. Most people in the world never saw the headline of the linked article.

> The problem is that a lot of the news headlines intentionally lie. The pattern is, put a purposefully misleading statement in the headline, then correct it in the article.

The headline in question did not lie. Nor did it mislead. The headline is accurate. Of course there's more to the story, which one can read in the story if one chooses. But this notion of an intentional lie just seems to come from the minds of Tesla apologists and not from any reality outside their minds. I disagree entirely with the notion.

Here's a question: how would you rewrite the headline?

How about "Cybertruck’s Many Safety Defects Make It Worse Than 91 Percent of All 2024 Vehicles"? Would you prefer that?

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#454

Post by snug »

> And on this metric, the Cybertruck might be wanting. “Cars with ongoing recalls well after launch suggest a much higher lifetime recall total,” says Brauer. He calculates that the Cybertruck’s six recalls to date are “worse than 91 percent” of other 2024 vehicles.

What are the other 9% of vehicles that are worse? Yeeshhh

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#455

Post by snug »

snug wrote: post #454

> And on this metric, the Cybertruck might be wanting. “Cars with ongoing recalls well after launch suggest a much higher lifetime recall total,” says Brauer. He calculates that the Cybertruck’s six recalls to date are “worse than 91 percent” of other 2024 vehicles. What are the other 9% of vehicles that are worse? Yeeshhh

Okay had to find out what it was

[2024,"THOMAS BUILT BUSES","SAF-T-LINER C2",11]

[2024,"MAZDA","CX-90-PHEV",10]

[2024,"MAZDA","CX-90-MHEV",10]

[2024,"INTERNATIONAL","MV",9]

[2024,"JEEP","WRANGLER 2-DOOR",8]

[2024,"JEEP","WRANGLER 4-DOOR",8]

[2024,"JEEP","WRANGLER 4-DOOR 392",8]

[2024,"JEEP","GRAND CHEROKEE L",8]

[2024,"JEEP","GRAND CHEROKEE",8]

[2024,"JEEP","GRAND CHEROKEE",8]

[2024,"FOREST RIVER","WILDWOOD",8]

[2024,"VOLVO","VHD",8]

[2024,"MACK","GRANITE (GR)",8]

[2024,"FORD","MAVERICK",8]

[2024,"FORD","MAVERICK",8]

[2024,"FOREST RIVER","SALEM",8]

[2024,"BMW","X5",7]

[2024,"BMW","X5",7]

[2024,"SPARTAN FIRE","METROSTAR",7]

[2024,"VOLVO","VNR",7]

[2024,"VOLVO","VNL",7]

[2024,"FORD","MUSTANG",7]

[2024,"FORD","MUSTANG",7]

[2024,"THOMAS BUILT BUSES","SAF-T-LINER C2 JOULEY",7]

[2024,"KENWORTH","T380",7]

[2024,"PETERBILT","537",7]

[2024,"PETERBILT","548",7]

[2024,"KENWORTH","T280",7]

[2024,"KENWORTH","T480",7]

[2024,"PETERBILT","536",7]

[2024,"PREVOST","H3-45",7]

[2024,"VOLVO","VN",6]

[2024,"TESLA","CYBERTRUCK",6]

API will only give you 50 at a time

https://api.nhtsa.gov/vehicles/bySearch?offset=0&max=50&sort...

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#456

Post by tremarley »

nobody9999 wrote: post #392
s1artibartfast wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might even say a majority.

>You might even say a majority. One might, but that would be incorrect. Trump received ~77,000,000 votes[0], which was 49.9% of the votes cast . As such, plurality is the appropriate term in this case. What's more, there were ~240,000,000 eligible voters and ~161,000,000 registered voters at the time of the 2024 election.[1] So the winner received less than a majority of votes cast by a small margin, and less so amon…

Trump received the majority of casted votes.

People would agree that the Labour government in Britain received the majority of votes in the recent UK elections.

But they had only received 33.7% of casted votes. Which is 20% among eligible voters.

Majority = a greater number

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#457

Post by danans »

austin-cheney wrote: post #218

Why are people spending so much money for something so hideous and so defective? Is this a weird fashion thing? My old 2017 Kia Soul costs about 5x less and has had 0 defects.

Buying cars - especially new cars - is as much if not more of an exercise in identity rather than an exercise in practicality or value. That was true before the Cybertruck and it will be true after it. You could just as well ask why anyone would pay so much for a Hummer.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#458

Post by nobody9999 »

tremarley wrote: post #456
nobody9999 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You might even say a majority. One might, but that would be incorrect. Trump received ~77,000,000 votes[0], which was 49.9% of the votes cast . As such, plurality is the appropriate term in this case. What's more, there were ~240,000,000 eligible voters and ~161,000,000 registered voters at the time of the 2024 election.[1] So the winner received less than a majority of votes cast by a small margin, and less so amon…

Trump received the majority of casted votes. People would agree that the Labour government in Britain received the majority of votes in the recent UK elections. But they had only received 33.7% of casted votes. Which is 20% among eligible voters. Majority = a greater number

>Trump received the majority of casted votes.

Majority: (n.):[0]

   1: a number or percentage equaling more than half of a
      total

      a majority of voters

      a two-thirds majority
N.B.: Donald Trump received 49.9% of total votes cast. That is (by the American definition -- we don't follow your rules) a plurality, not a majority.

Feel free to quibble about whose definition is correct. I'm sure the King will richly reward you for defending his English.

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/majority

Edit: Fixed formatting.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#459

Post by sitkack »

brookst wrote: post #314
gambiting wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. It's easy to see that with Volvo - they had their own operating system called Sensus that could only be upgraded at the dealership and you know, maybe it wasn't the flashiest thing but it worked fine. I've owned a car with it for nearly 5 years and it has never crashed for me once or really did anything weird - it's as stable as any automotive software should be imho. And then they swapped over to AOSS(an…

Is AOSP running any of the critical systems that would make the car undrivable or unsafe if it crashed? Or just IVI stuff? If the former that is horrifying.

All systems in a car are safety critical. If your infotainment system is freaking out it is taking your eyes off the road.

The same way that updates to Google Maps and Apple Maps kill people due to UI changes.

All systems are safety critical.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#460

Post by sitkack »

r2_pilot wrote: post #363
imtringued wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of studios who just run away with your money and never deliver the fixes.

I'm still deeply disappointed about Kerbal Space Program 2,for that matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerbal_Space_Program_2

I had no idea. That sounds like fraud.

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