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A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

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Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#81

Post by masklinn »

qayxc wrote: post #61
masklinn wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany is more renewable but more expensive than France No, germany is more renewable but it's also more coal, any time there's no wind the coal plants start up. And they burn lignite (because that's what in germany e.g. that's what the Baggers strip mine). As a consequence, Germany's electricity emissions are absolute garbage: https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE/12mo It's not as bad as Poland which basically…

> No, germany is more renewable but it's also more coal, any time there's no wind the coal plants start up. Hm. The actual facts say otherwise, though: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterpris... So number go DOWN, not up, is what I'm seeing.

> Hm. The actual facts say otherwise

They don't.

> So number go DOWN, not up, is what I'm seeing.

The comment I replied to is comparing germany to france. The map I linked literally tells you that in 2024 Germany generated 370g CO2 equivalent per kWh, where France generated 32, that's an objective number you can straight up read.

Yes Germany is 58% renewable versus France's 28 (something the map also tells you), but then 30% are gas and especially coal, the link you provide agrees with that. Coal is insanely polluting, especially because Germany mainly uses lignite which is the least energy rich coal (so even more emissions for the same production), coal represents >3/4th of its emissions.

Meanwhile gas is a minor component of france's electricity mix (pretty much just peaking plants and a few combined cycle district heating plants) and coal is a rounding error.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#82

Post by palata »

briandear wrote: post #15
insane_dreamer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it wasn't for France having primarily used nuclear power decades ago, Europe as a whole would be in a much much worse state when it comes to CO2 emissions. That makes it abundantly clear that nuclear needs to be a part of the mix when it comes to non-emission generating energy production.

Any data on how much France has slowed the decrease of global temperatures? Is there a “nuclear power to degrees saved” converter?

I can't say if this question is asked in good faith.

Pretty obviously it's better than what the other European countries have been doing.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#83

Post by masklinn »

qayxc wrote: post #63
thrance wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany may use more renewables in volume, but it is absolutely dirtier than in France. Their electrical mix makes use of lots of natural gas and lignite coal, the worst kind, both expensive and very dirty.

Compare to the PAST, not the present! As you can see, the trend is downwards and steadily at that: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterpris... Rome wasn't built in a day and I find it hilarious to advocate for nuclear power instead, if the average construction time (not even taking into account the prior mountain of bureaucracy) is over a decade. Not a single nuclear power plant built in past 15 y…

> As you can see, the trend is downwards and steadily at that

Lignite numbers:

2019: 114TWh, 18.7%

2020: 92TWh, 16%

2021: 110TWh, 18.8%

2022: 116TWh, 20%

2023: 88TWh, 17%

I've seen steadier terminal alcoholics.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#84

Post by markvdb »

fulafel wrote: post #26
post-it wrote: post #16

Something I've wondered for a while: if the whole continent is on a synchronized grid, how can countries tell to or from whom they're exporting and importing electricity. I can see how they can measure their total imports or exports by comparing generation to consumption, but how do they figure out which neighbour they're getting electricity from / sending it to?

For completeness - that's just one grid included in this viz, for the map of the different european grids see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_grid_of_Continenta... (Russia is another big chunk of Europe but not included in the above map, though I think it may be the same grid with the Baltics) For the question, measuring the flow of electricity is just normal power engineering, your home electricity meter…

The Baltics are disconnecting from the Soviet era BRELL grid with Russia and Belarus in two months [0].

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/baltic-countries-leave-...

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#85

Post by toomuchtodo »

markvdb wrote: post #84
fulafel wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For completeness - that's just one grid included in this viz, for the map of the different european grids see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_grid_of_Continenta... (Russia is another big chunk of Europe but not included in the above map, though I think it may be the same grid with the Baltics) For the question, measuring the flow of electricity is just normal power engineering, your home electricity meter…

The Baltics are disconnecting from the Soviet era BRELL grid with Russia and Belarus in two months [0]. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/baltic-countries-leave-...

Additional info: https://spectrum.ieee.org/baltic-power-grid

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#86

Post by pydry »

kergonath wrote: post #79
pydry wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energiewende didnt start in 1973, it was first authorized in late 2010. France's nuclear program was also very, very expensive: https://www.i-sis.org.uk/The_True_Costs_of_French_Nuclear_Po...

You can say whatever you want when discussion the cost of nuclear in France because of the structure of its nuclear industry. Part of it comes from the government’s budget, so depending on your point of view it can be accounted for differently. Then, there are externalities (pollution, greenhouse gases, etc). And then there are strategic aspects and associated costs. The alternative in the 1970s was skyrocketing oil,…

>The alternative in the 1970s was skyrocketing oil

They imported and still import just as much oil as anyone else.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#87

Post by progval »

_Microft wrote: post #34
coreyp_1 wrote: post #21

I get irrationally angry when a map is skewed in this way and there is no way to change it. The more you zoom in, the worse the distortion is made to be. Even zooming all the way out does not eliminate the angular distortion. This took actual effort on some programmer's part! Who ever thought that this is a good idea?!? It's like those navigational mini maps (car or computer game) that won't keep north pointing up...…

You can also change the perspective by simultaneously holding the Ctrl key and moving the mouse.

Or move the cursor while right-clicking.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#88

Post by fsh »

thrance wrote: post #45
fsh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France has 12% of Europe's population, and its primary energy is 45% from fossil fuels and 40% from nuclear power. The effect on Europe as a whole is therefore pretty small.

I think you included transportation in your stats: planes, cars, trucks and boats. The electrical mix in France includes only 8% from fossil fuels, of which 7% come from natural gas. The rest is mostly nuclear, hydroelectric, wind and solar. In that order. France also regularly sells its surplus to neighboring countries.

Most countries use way more primary energy for heating and transportation than for electricity generation. It would be disingenuous not to include this.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#90

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

moooo99 wrote: post #75
insane_dreamer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not counting the energy outflows from France to neighboring countries. Also, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear, not 40%.

> Also, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear, not 40%. No, it gets 70% of its electricity from nuclear.

[flagged]
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