Live data from Hacker News

Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

ftm.nl

121–130 of 159 posts

Re: Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

#121

Anyone can mix chemicals in a test tube and claim it’s the cure for something. That’s the easy part. Proving it’s safe and effective, that’s what requires a lot of capital expenditure. This statement is a drastic characterization, but you could say “half a dozen PhDs can form reasons to believe they may have found a cure for something”, and the paragraph would end the same.

To quote xkcd, "So does a handgun" https://xkcd.com/1217/

Re: Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

#122
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://247wallst.com/media/2024/08/04/9-biggest-video-game-...

There is certainly a difference between profit and revenue, yes.

I guess it's easier to casually mention you might not recoup your investment when it's not your $200mil but my point it's just that there's a lot of speculative technical research or cultural output that is very hard to predict outcome, some of these things also requiring high paid labor, and we don't have a huge thing around "omg if they don't all become billionnaires selling drugs nobody will make drugs because it's so hard and expensive", meanwhile people are going to space and so on.

Re: Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

#123

That's interesting. I was just reading about how high dose IV vitamin c can induce cell death in a wide variety of cancers, but somehow, despite this being known for decades, nobody has done rigorous research on it. https://www.cancer.gov/research/key-initiatives/ras/news-eve... From what I can tell there are several things like this - that have promising anti cancer effects, that just don't really get that much atte…

Deeply disappointed by the comments replying to this. I would reply to each individually, but feel like I'd get throttled by hackernews, so I'll just reply to everyone here. --- shepherdjerred writes that this is unlikely because doctors want what is best for their patients and would notice a cure were it available. This is kind of true. Some doctors do know about and prescribe vitamin c with typical therapy. Here is…

This is what I call a cogent, measured and robust rebuttal to several opposing viewpoints. I don't have much to add as a response of my own on the specifics but just want to mention that what your comment tacitly points out repeatedly is very common in the comments on this site, for many subjects and especially those that seem to provoke a certain popular hive-mind response:

People writing completely half-baked, often deeply ignorant opinions on complex, nuanced subjects out of mostly emotional disdain, but phrasing their responses in such a way as to easily fool someone who doesn't know said subject well that they at all know what they're talking about and are thus arguing rationally.

Re: Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

#125

Anyone can mix chemicals in a test tube and claim it’s the cure for something. That’s the easy part. Proving it’s safe and effective, that’s what requires a lot of capital expenditure. This statement is a drastic characterization, but you could say “half a dozen PhDs can form reasons to believe they may have found a cure for something”, and the paragraph would end the same.

Got my PhD from a lab that works on antibody drugs, they eventually even released one to the market. I’d argue that our current system is broken. There’s no reliable metric of drug effectiveness in any of our pre-clinical models, and thus we end up going into clinical trials quite blind indeed. And more often than not, what drug gets into trials has more to do with ego and politics than actual scientific merit. And t…

There are companies trying to address this right? Have you seen biorce and other new ventures? Hopefully it can bring some innovation and reform to old processes.

That being said, we're talking about human lives either way so it needs to be thought through and avoid unintended disasters through lack of care.

Re: Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

#126
post #73
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's interesting. I was just reading about how high dose IV vitamin c can induce cell death in a wide variety of cancers, but somehow, despite this being known for decades, nobody has done rigorous research on it. Sigh. Vitamin C quackery again. Vitamin C at high doses is cytotoxic, so it works against rapidly dividing cells. Cancer cells also preferentially concentrate vitamin C because they are under oxidative…

There is evidence that high doses of antioxidants can make cancer worse , probably because cancer cells are under oxidative stress. https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2015... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8127329/

Vitamin C in large doses becomes a pro-oxidant because it reduces metal ions, and they in turn then become catalysts for oxidative reactions or even directly oxidize stuff.

Re: Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

#127
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's interesting. I was just reading about how high dose IV vitamin c can induce cell death in a wide variety of cancers, but somehow, despite this being known for decades, nobody has done rigorous research on it. Sigh. Vitamin C quackery again. Vitamin C at high doses is cytotoxic, so it works against rapidly dividing cells. Cancer cells also preferentially concentrate vitamin C because they are under oxidative…

Thanks for providing a plausible explanation. Do you know of any links (ideally peer- reviewed research) supporting the quick evolution of resistance to vitamin C? If not I'll google around.

That's a generic cancer resistance mechanism. That's why most of cancer treatments fail eventually, the cancer cells evolve to tolerate the levels of chemotherapy agents that are lethal to regular cells.

In the articles linked in this thread, large-dose vitamin C prolonged survival, but didn't clear the cancer. It's exactly what you'd expect from a chemo treatment.

Re: Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

#128
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's interesting. I was just reading about how high dose IV vitamin c can induce cell death in a wide variety of cancers, but somehow, despite this being known for decades, nobody has done rigorous research on it. Sigh. Vitamin C quackery again. Vitamin C at high doses is cytotoxic, so it works against rapidly dividing cells. Cancer cells also preferentially concentrate vitamin C because they are under oxidative…

This was just published by UI showing a potent effect of high dose vitamin C + chemotherapy: https://medicine.uiowa.edu/content/high-dose-iv-vitamin-c-pl... and https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221323172...

That's actually pretty interesting. Pancreatic cancer is one of the most aggressive cancers, and without many therapeutic options. Vitamin C is basically another drug to complement the existing standard-of-care drugs. Not a silver bullet, but definitely helpful.

Re: Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

#129

If federal funds are used to develop a medication or vaccine, it must not be patentable, otherwise it is a corporate welfare giveaway trading lives and poverty for money.

But that is 100% the Pharma industry. How did we get an Ebola vaccine? USA spent $100M. And they were the only ones willing to despite <1% of cases

Re: Developing a cancer drug without Big Pharma: this hospital shows it can be done

#130
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got my PhD from a lab that works on antibody drugs, they eventually even released one to the market. I’d argue that our current system is broken. There’s no reliable metric of drug effectiveness in any of our pre-clinical models, and thus we end up going into clinical trials quite blind indeed. And more often than not, what drug gets into trials has more to do with ego and politics than actual scientific merit. And t…

It doesn’t (have to) cost billions to bring a (successful) drug to market. And if you pick a single successful example that was discovered in academia, was spun out into a small focussed biotech, and was in a disease area that didn’t require large or multiple studies to make it to market, you’ll have your anecdote to prove your point. Except… you’d be ignoring the costs of the 90% of drugs that fail in phase 1. You’d…

Right. You can't just choose to run the successful clinical trials anymore than you can choose to only buy stocks that will go up on wall street. you have to run various clinical trials for a drug, and they fail. a lot. that very very expensive with no payoff. the successes have to be so phenomenally profitable that they cover the costs of all the failures. So real change would come from making the costs of those failures go away, without being able to cheat the system. The amount of medicine is believed to work, but is unpatentable, and thus doesn't have the profit motive to be pushed through clinical trials is a huge black badge on the American version of capitalism as being the best way we can organize society for the advancement of science and technology.
Post reply on HN