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Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#491

Post by jamesmotherway »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #286
jamesmotherway wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All Apple silicon-based Mac notebooks and Intel-based Mac notebooks with the Apple T2 Security Chip feature a hardware disconnect that disables the microphone whenever the lid is closed. On all 13-inch MacBook Pro and MacBook Air notebooks with the T2 chip, all MacBook notebooks with a T2 chip from 2019 or later, and Mac notebooks with Apple silicon, this disconnect is implemented in hardware alone." [1] [1] https:/…

That's what they said about the first gen Facetime cameras. "oooh don't worry, it's controlled in hardware!" We have no way of verifying that anything they said in that document is true.

I'm inclined to believe it. If someone managed to prove Apple's lying about it, there would be serious reputational (and other) risks to their business. I also can't imagine how they would benefit from such a fabrication.

That said, I still use "Nanoblock" webcam covers and monitor for when either the camera or microphone are activated.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#492

Post by Qem »

sandywaffles wrote: post #489
Qem wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a personal anecdote: I don't have a dog, but my grandma has two. Once, while visiting her, the dogs were barking a lot. Almost immediately I started receiving ads for dog food in my cellphone.

It is more likely your GPS placed you in the vicinity (regularly?) with another AD ID that regularly searches for, purchases, or visits dog centric locations. It's also entirely possible that the other AD ID's (your grandma) dog food schedule is predictable and you happen to be visiting within a time frame of dog food purchases.

My grandma never owned a cellphone, only an old landline. And she buys dogfood in the neighborhood mom & pop store.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#493

Post by tzs »

WalterBright wrote: post #12

Of course it can. Cameras and microphones and write enable must have physical switches, not software ones. When will people learn? Never. Me, I unplug the camera and mike when not in use.

Heavy camera and mic users might want to be careful with the unplug when not in use approach, in case either the camera/mic and/or the computer/hub the camera/mic connects to has a connector that is only good for the minimum number of mating cycles required by the USB spec.

For type A connectors that is only 1500 cycles. Mini USB connectors raise that 5000 cycles. Micro USB and USB-C raise it to 10000.

For a type A just plugging and unplugging twice a day every workday would reach 1500 cycles in a little over 3 years.

What I do now for things that I'm going to plug/unplug a lot where the thing is expensive enough that I don't want to risk the connector wearing out before I'm ready to replace the thing is use a short extension cable or an inexpensive hub. The extension cable or hub can be relatively permanently connected and the thing that is frequently plugged/unplugged connects to that.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#494

Post by Nifty3929 »

Can we not require physical, electromechanical switches (like an old-fashioned light switch) for each of the following: camera, mic, cell/LTE, gps, bluetooth, wifi?

Each should have their own switch, otherwise they will group them all into one "privacy mode" switch that also includes something you basically can't live without. Like the keyboard doesn't work in privacy mode or something. Plus, I'd like to be able to leave some of these off by default, only switching them on when I want to use that feature.

I imagine a company good at design (e.g. Apple) could make these small, elegant and easy to use.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#495

Post by epistasis »

mass_and_energy wrote: post #440
71bw wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went the "batshit insane" route and my microphone hole is plugged in with some clay. It did most likely physically damage it forever, but at least I now know it's OFF for good.

Why not shut it off in the bios?

If it can be software controlled, that doesn't really protect against the route documented for cameras in the original post

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#496

Post by hackernewds »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #494

Can we not require physical, electromechanical switches (like an old-fashioned light switch) for each of the following: camera, mic, cell/LTE, gps, bluetooth, wifi? Each should have their own switch, otherwise they will group them all into one "privacy mode" switch that also includes something you basically can't live without. Like the keyboard doesn't work in privacy mode or something. Plus, I'd like to be able to l…

That would make too much sense and cost profits, sir.

This is a capitalism.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#497

Post by hackernewds »

ohhnoodont wrote: post #244
epistasis wrote: post #17

I can see why some people might be concerned about the camera, but I'm far more concerned by the microphone. There's far more sensitive and actionable information that can be gathered from me that way! I'm glad that macOS started putting a light in the menubar when the microphone is in use, but I'd prefer to have unhackable hardware for that instead.

Yup it's wild to me how much anxiety there is about cameras while no mind is given to microphones. Conversations are much more privileged than potentially seeing me in my underwear. That said the most sensitive information is what we already willingly transmit: search queries, interactions, etc. We feed these systems with so much data that they arguably learn things about us that we're not even consciously aware of.…

> Conversations are much more privileged than potentially seeing me in my underwear.

Depends on how you look in underwear.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#498

Post by hackernewds »

JCharante wrote: post #413
ohhnoodont wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup it's wild to me how much anxiety there is about cameras while no mind is given to microphones. Conversations are much more privileged than potentially seeing me in my underwear. That said the most sensitive information is what we already willingly transmit: search queries, interactions, etc. We feed these systems with so much data that they arguably learn things about us that we're not even consciously aware of.…

> Yup it's wild to me how much anxiety there is about cameras while no mind is given to microphones. Conversations are much more privileged than potentially seeing me in my underwear. It depends on the person, I don't think you could gain much from me? I don't say credit card numbers out loud, I don't talk about hypothetical crimes out loud. I don't say my wallet seed phrases out loud. I also don't type in my passwor…

The cost of feeding your entire years speech to an LLM will be $0.5/person. I'm sure summarized and searchable your conversation will be very very valuable.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#499

Post by hackernewds »

goodpoint wrote: post #384
sunsetonsaturn wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Record, produce transcript, look for keywords, alert the puppeteer when something interesting is picked up - trade secrets, pre-shared keys, defense sector intelligence, etc.

And even record keystroke sound to extract passwords.

Only works if there's labeled data for your prior keystrokes as training data. Unless, there's some uniform manufacturing defect per key in a widely available keyboard like Macbook Air
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