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Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#481

Post by moregrist »

oneshtein wrote: post #347
jdblair wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or, you can have a physical switch, like the Framework. that also hits your BOM but its not complex!

You can buy/print and stick a physical «webcam cover»[1] manually on your notebook or phone. My current notebook, manufactured in 2023, has very thin bar on top of screen with camera, so I need a thin, U-like attachment for the switch, which is hard to find. [1]: https://www.printables.com/model/2479-webcam-cover-slider

I find that the sticky part of a post-it works very well for this. Sometimes you have to clean the adhesive part off with 70% IPA, but not too often.

Not as pretty as a custom cover but cost-effective and can generally be done in under a minute with common office supplies (post-it + scissors) which has its own advantages.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#482

Post by moregrist »

SiVal wrote: post #335
jdblair wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or, you can have a physical switch, like the Framework. that also hits your BOM but its not complex!

Would a bit of Post-It Note (for minimal adhesion) damage the screen coating if left on most of the time? Would even that much thickness stress the screen when opened and closed thousands of times? Is there a better (self-service) material?

I’ve used one for years on various MacBooks and it’s very effective. The paper is very thin so it causes no real mechanical stress and also opaque, so all the camera sees is a field the color of that paper.

There’s been no damage to the screen from the adhesive although occasionally I’ve had to clean the residual adhesive with 70% IPA, but nothing worse than the typical grime that most laptop monitors pick up.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#483

Post by ch4s3 »

wsintra2022 wrote: post #469
ch4s3 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's true since far too many times obscure things I've spoken about appear in ads soon after the conversation People have been making claims like this since at least the early 90s, about TV then, and no one ever credibly claims to have worked on something like this. I've worked with purchased ad data and I've never seen this data or anything that implies that it exists. It seems far more likely that its a t…

I agree with this sentiment, people talk about x product then realise they are seeing ads for x product. Most likely the ads were there first and the people only start talking about it cause the ads have been working.

That’s pretty much it. You see an obscure ad without realizing it and have a related conversation later. Then when you see the ad again and make note of it, it feels strange.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#484

Post by pmoriarty »

ddalex wrote: post #357
oneshtein wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy/print and stick a physical «webcam cover»[1] manually on your notebook or phone. My current notebook, manufactured in 2023, has very thin bar on top of screen with camera, so I need a thin, U-like attachment for the switch, which is hard to find. [1]: https://www.printables.com/model/2479-webcam-cover-slider

Am I the only one that is not worried at all about the camera and super concerned about microphones ? The camera may see me staring into the screen, woo hoo. The microphones will hear everything I discuss, incl. confidential information. There is no physical microphone cover there, is it ?

"Am I the only one that is not worried at all about the camera and super concerned about microphones ? The camera may see me staring into the screen, woo hoo. The microphones will hear everything I discuss, incl. confidential information."

All phones are suspect. We should go back to only carrying pagers.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#485

Post by red-iron-pine »

sbarre wrote: post #3

I thought the whole point of these camera LEDs was to have them wired to/through the power to the camera, so they are always on when the camera is getting power, no matter what. Having the LED control exposed through the firmware completely defeats this.

Enterprise organizations want to be able to watch their employees without them knowing.

Other organizations like law enforcement, are also ambivalent about this.

The easy solution, of course, is a folded business card or piece of tape. But tbh I'm not surprised they didn't implement that approach, and likely deliberately.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#486

Post by micahdeath »

volkl48 wrote: post #466
oneshtein wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy/print and stick a physical «webcam cover»[1] manually on your notebook or phone. My current notebook, manufactured in 2023, has very thin bar on top of screen with camera, so I need a thin, U-like attachment for the switch, which is hard to find. [1]: https://www.printables.com/model/2479-webcam-cover-slider

Just to note: Apple will refuse to cover any screen damage under warranty if one of these sorts of things was in use. I would not be surprised if the same is true for some other manufacturers, too, but I can only speak definitely to Mac. The issue is that lids close too closely + tightly now, and so anything more than a piece of tape winds up focusing all the pressure applied to the closed lid on that one spot in the…

i use a piece of tin foil - tiny peanut butter cup wrappy - stays in place lovely

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#487

Post by Qem »

dghughes wrote: post #445
ddalex wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one that is not worried at all about the camera and super concerned about microphones ? The camera may see me staring into the screen, woo hoo. The microphones will hear everything I discuss, incl. confidential information. There is no physical microphone cover there, is it ?

And the true or not Google or other apps listening then you see ads based on that conversation. I think it's true since far too many times obscure things I've spoken about appear in ads soon after the conversation. So yes I'd say a mic blocking feature you can confirm is working, blocking, is needed.

Just a personal anecdote: I don't have a dog, but my grandma has two. Once, while visiting her, the dogs were barking a lot. Almost immediately I started receiving ads for dog food in my cellphone.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#488

Post by gregw2 »

booleandilemma wrote: post #245

I'd like a laptop without a built in microphone and camera altogether, to be honest.

I've seen them when shopping for certain CAD-certified laptops.

There are some of these out there, from major brands (HP?). Asus seems to have more. ( https://rehack.com/reviews/best-laptops-without-webcams/ ) They tend to be workstation grade, sometimes gaming, machines at higher price points. For new laptops, see if you can customize it out on their site.

While searching for one on amazon/ebay stinks, you can find ones without webcam (doublecheck for integrated microphone status in product details too though) by looking manually for terms like "no webcam"... vendors usually don't want returns due to surprises so it will be mentioned in the product title.

links: https://laptopwithlinux.com/laptops-without-webcam/?currency...

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#489

Post by sandywaffles »

Qem wrote: post #487
dghughes wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the true or not Google or other apps listening then you see ads based on that conversation. I think it's true since far too many times obscure things I've spoken about appear in ads soon after the conversation. So yes I'd say a mic blocking feature you can confirm is working, blocking, is needed.

Just a personal anecdote: I don't have a dog, but my grandma has two. Once, while visiting her, the dogs were barking a lot. Almost immediately I started receiving ads for dog food in my cellphone.

It is more likely your GPS placed you in the vicinity (regularly?) with another AD ID that regularly searches for, purchases, or visits dog centric locations. It's also entirely possible that the other AD ID's (your grandma) dog food schedule is predictable and you happen to be visiting within a time frame of dog food purchases.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#490

Post by riedel »

sbarre wrote: post #3

I thought the whole point of these camera LEDs was to have them wired to/through the power to the camera, so they are always on when the camera is getting power, no matter what. Having the LED control exposed through the firmware completely defeats this.

Actually astound about the same thing with the microphone mute LED and the speaker mute LED. Even without any attack they are sometimes malfunctioning. None of those seem remotely hardwired on my ThinkPad Z13.
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