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Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#451

Post by lxgr »

kergonath wrote: post #333
lxgr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no privacy on macOS, nor any other proprietary system. Nor is there on any free system for which you didn't make every hardware component yourself, as well as audit the executable of the compiler with which you compiled every executable. (You did self-compile everything, hopefully?)

> You did self-compile everything, hopefully? Including the compiler, of course.

That's where things get circular, which is why I wrote "audit the compiler". But then, how much can you really trust your hex editor... :)

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#452

Post by GTP »

throw646577 wrote: post #378
nine_k wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray read the third paragraph of my reply :) It specifically mentions a way to make the LED be lit for long enough.

Which is not an adjustable method -- without changing the hardware design later in production to just tweak a delay -- and surely causes the LED to slowly fade out?

Would it be so important to be able to tweak the duration later? And why would it be a problem to have the LED fade out?

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#453

Post by Anna3321AQ »

sbarre wrote: post #3

I thought the whole point of these camera LEDs was to have them wired to/through the power to the camera, so they are always on when the camera is getting power, no matter what. Having the LED control exposed through the firmware completely defeats this.

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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#454

Post by Anna3321AQ »

542458 wrote: post #51
sbarre wrote: post #3

I thought the whole point of these camera LEDs was to have them wired to/through the power to the camera, so they are always on when the camera is getting power, no matter what. Having the LED control exposed through the firmware completely defeats this.

They are hardwired on Macbooks. From Daring Fireball, quoting an email from an Apple engineer. > All cameras after [2008] were different: The hardware team tied the LED to a hardware signal from the sensor: If the (I believe) vertical sync was active, the LED would light up. There is NO firmware control to disable/enable the LED. The actual firmware is indeed flashable, but the part is not a generic part and there ar…

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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#455

Post by lelandfe »

megraf wrote: post #172
NTARelix wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall in the early or mid 2000s using some cheap earbuds plugged into the microphone port of my family computer as a pair of microphones in lieu of having a real microphone nor the money for one. Then I used Audacity to turn the terrible recording into a passable sound effect for the video games I was making. Not knowing much about how soundcards work, I imagine it would be feasible to flash some soundcards with c…

This is common at nightclubs (or was) - a DJ can use their headphones as a microphone, speaking into one channel and listening to another Example https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1NNP6AFkpjs :-)

You will still see DJs do this in NYC! Old school flavor. You can also see Skepta rapping into a pair on the the music video for That's Not Me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xQKWnvtg6c

I've seen some theatrical DJs bring a cheap pair, snap them in half, and then use them like a "lollipop." Crowd eats it up. Even older school: using a telephone handset: https://imgur.com/a/1fUghXY

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#456

Post by dfox »

kimixa wrote: post #316
KennyBlanken wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what they said about the first gen Facetime cameras. "oooh don't worry, it's controlled in hardware!" We have no way of verifying that anything they said in that document is true.

It's clear Apple define "Hardware" as "Not using the main CPU". They've pretty much admitted it's firmware based, otherwise the T2 chip simply wouldn't be involved to be mentioned.

It is implemented in dedicated small CPLD that cannot be flashed by any software means. My understanding of relation to T2/SEP is that this CPLD serves as a kind of "IO expander" for T2/SEP which also hardwires logic like this.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#457

Post by ch4s3 »

dghughes wrote: post #445
ddalex wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one that is not worried at all about the camera and super concerned about microphones ? The camera may see me staring into the screen, woo hoo. The microphones will hear everything I discuss, incl. confidential information. There is no physical microphone cover there, is it ?

And the true or not Google or other apps listening then you see ads based on that conversation. I think it's true since far too many times obscure things I've spoken about appear in ads soon after the conversation. So yes I'd say a mic blocking feature you can confirm is working, blocking, is needed.

> I think it's true since far too many times obscure things I've spoken about appear in ads soon after the conversation

People have been making claims like this since at least the early 90s, about TV then, and no one ever credibly claims to have worked on something like this. I've worked with purchased ad data and I've never seen this data or anything that implies that it exists. It seems far more likely that its a trick of memory. You ignore most ads you see, but you remember ones that relate to odd topics that interest you.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#458

Post by protomolecule »

Grimblewald wrote: post #321
thread_id wrote: post #320

Why The FBI Director Puts Tape Over His Webcam "I saw something in the news, so I copied it. I put a piece of tape — I have obviously a laptop, personal laptop — I put a piece of tape over the camera. Because I saw somebody smarter than I am had a piece of tape over their camera." https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/08/473548674... Is there anyone who doesn't do this?

Nope, in fact i have no built in mic or camera, and theyre unplugged when not strictly needed.

You also have your smartphone with its microphone and cameras.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#459

Post by _joel »

ddalex wrote: post #357
oneshtein wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy/print and stick a physical «webcam cover»[1] manually on your notebook or phone. My current notebook, manufactured in 2023, has very thin bar on top of screen with camera, so I need a thin, U-like attachment for the switch, which is hard to find. [1]: https://www.printables.com/model/2479-webcam-cover-slider

Am I the only one that is not worried at all about the camera and super concerned about microphones ? The camera may see me staring into the screen, woo hoo. The microphones will hear everything I discuss, incl. confidential information. There is no physical microphone cover there, is it ?

Disable it all in the BIOS?
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