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Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#421

Post by j1elo »

aendruk wrote: post #218
connicpu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An indicator light hardwired is nice but I apparently can't trust hardware manufacturers to design it properly. My work laptop (HP Dragonfly) has a physical blocker that closes over the camera when I haven't explicitly pressed the button that enables the camera. The blocker is black and white stripes so it's very obvious when it's covering the sensor. This should absolutely be the security standard we all strive for…

> The blocker is black and white stripes On my ThinkPad it’s instead painted with a red dot. Because, obviously, the conventional meaning of a red dot appearing on a camera is “not recording”.

I just looked up to my "Lenovo Performance" webcam and saw its red dot [1] looking at me... some product designers have a worrying lack of awareness about de-facto standards and user expectations affecting the UX.

[1]: https://imgur.com/Kowt8WJ

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#422

Post by daghamm »

znpy wrote: post #410

This is nothing new, i remember the same headline but on macs for like ~5-6 years ago?

Yes, and there was a case of a guy recoding young women and sextorting them.

BTW, I would assume that X230 users are the type of people who install physical shutters on their webcams.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#423

Post by jonplackett »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #173
jonplackett wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how quickly it turns on/off as per Gruber’s worry - if you just record a single frame would it even be visible if looking right at it?

Below, axoltl writes: > no firmware is involved in enforcing the LED stay on for 3 seconds after a single frame is captured. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42260379

That is quite clever! Thanks

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#424

Post by 71bw »

curun1r wrote: post #95
epistasis wrote: post #17

I can see why some people might be concerned about the camera, but I'm far more concerned by the microphone. There's far more sensitive and actionable information that can be gathered from me that way! I'm glad that macOS started putting a light in the menubar when the microphone is in use, but I'd prefer to have unhackable hardware for that instead.

The microphone also can't be covered with a $1 plastic camera cover off Amazon. It's so easy to solve the camera issue if you care about it, but there's really nothing you can do about the mic.

I went the "batshit insane" route and my microphone hole is plugged in with some clay.

It did most likely physically damage it forever, but at least I now know it's OFF for good.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#425

Post by redbell »

What if, for some reason, the webcam's LED failed (e.g., it physically stopped working)? In case of a malware attack, you might not even realize that your webcam is being used even if the malware can't have access to control the LED. In my opinion, the most effective way to protect yourself against webcam hacking is to physically cover the camera with a sticker or cover when it’s not in use. Simply put, I believe physical safeguards are more reliable than software-based solutions whenever possible.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#426

Post by phito »

redbell wrote: post #425

What if, for some reason, the webcam's LED failed (e.g., it physically stopped working)? In case of a malware attack, you might not even realize that your webcam is being used even if the malware can't have access to control the LED. In my opinion, the most effective way to protect yourself against webcam hacking is to physically cover the camera with a sticker or cover when it’s not in use. Simply put, I believe phy…

Seems like you wrote your text, asked chatGPT to rephrase it, pasted the new version and forgot to remove the previous one.

Looks like you used ChatGPT to rephrase your text but forgot to delete the original version.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#428

Post by ripped_britches »

phito wrote: post #426
redbell wrote: post #425

What if, for some reason, the webcam's LED failed (e.g., it physically stopped working)? In case of a malware attack, you might not even realize that your webcam is being used even if the malware can't have access to control the LED. In my opinion, the most effective way to protect yourself against webcam hacking is to physically cover the camera with a sticker or cover when it’s not in use. Simply put, I believe phy…

Seems like you wrote your text, asked chatGPT to rephrase it, pasted the new version and forgot to remove the previous one. Looks like you used ChatGPT to rephrase your text but forgot to delete the original version.

Brutal! “Simply put”

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#429

Post by ri0t »

lukan wrote: post #408
MarcusE1W wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Pinephone has a switch for the microphone and also my Pinebook Pro laptop. But I also would agree that this is exotic hardware.

"But I also would agree that this is exotic hardware." No shit. How is the current state btw? I suppose still not ready to be a daily driver to replace my normal phone?

> I suppose still not ready to be a daily driver to replace my normal phone?

I'd say that depends on your definition of daily driver and/or how much compromises you're willing to take. I occasionally see members at my larger hackerspace running around with those or other seemingly "unfit" hardware and not complain too much about it ;)

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#430

Post by teppix »

eggy wrote: post #261

Turning off camera LEDs and recording video is an old hack and old news. This is for a specific firmware and computer model and attack surface via USB to update the webcam's firmware, so I am assuming that makes it news? EDIT: I keep a piece of black electric tape over any of my notebook's webcams.

> Turning off camera LEDs and recording video is an old hack and old news.

This.

Some of the linux webcam drivers drivers have had the option to specify the behavior of the LED via a parameter since way back, including turning it completely off.

I remember this was the case ~20 years ago.

One example (look for the led-option) https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v5.1/media/v4l-drivers/phili...

This is straight from the documentation:

"But with: `leds=0,0`the LED never goes on, making it suitable for silent surveillance"

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