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Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#381

Post by KeplerBoy »

bluGill wrote: post #139
orbital-decay wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only works on audio chipsets that allow pin retasking. Which is, coincidentally, all Realtek chipsets that are present in every PC... (you also need to plug the speaker directly, mostly limiting it to headphones and laptop speakers)

Even where it works, speakers are much worse microphones that dedicated microphones, and so the amount of data that can be gathered is low. Why bother when you probably have a microphone on the same PC that can capture far more sound?

This isn't about audio fidelity, this just about getting audible spoken words, which is definitely possible even with the worst microphone.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#382

Post by ndjdjddjsjj »

lxgr wrote: post #61
salutis wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS is a proprietary binary blob, remotely controlled by Apple. So, the light in the menu bar is not a reliable indicator of anything. There is no privacy on macOS, nor any other proprietary system. You can never be 100% sure what the system is doing right now, as can be anything it is capable of. Apple is putting a lot of money to "teach people" otherwise, but that is marketing, not truth.

> There is no privacy on macOS, nor any other proprietary system. Nor is there on any free system for which you didn't make every hardware component yourself, as well as audit the executable of the compiler with which you compiled every executable. (You did self-compile everything, hopefully?)

[flagged]

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#383

Post by goodpoint »

jdblair wrote: post #325
nine_k wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's backwards. The LED should be connected to camera's power, or maybe camera's "enable" signal. It should not be operable via any firmware in any way. The led also has to be connected through a one-shot trigger (a transistor + a capacitor) so that it would light up, say, for at least 500 ms no matter how short the input pulse is. This would prevent making single shots hard to notice. Doing that, of course, would…

or, you can have a physical switch, like the Framework. that also hits your BOM but its not complex!

This is the right solution. And a hardware switch cost is completely negligible in a $1000 laptop.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#384

Post by goodpoint »

sunsetonsaturn wrote: post #360
rocqua wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will microphone access be monetized? For video, it is extortion. For microphone, it's much harder.

Record, produce transcript, look for keywords, alert the puppeteer when something interesting is picked up - trade secrets, pre-shared keys, defense sector intelligence, etc.

And even record keystroke sound to extract passwords.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#385

Post by Gigachad »

bennyg wrote: post #149
ryanisnan wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that true? I use my macbook mic occasionally with the lid closed, and an external monitor.

Plus one-ing this - I think the external monitor may be the kicker to keeping the mic active. This drives me up the wall when Google Meet decides to just default to the closed Macbook next to me instead of my already connected Air Pods when joining work meetings.

The closed macbook next to you has infinitely better sound quality than the airpods mic which will sound like you are underwater.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#386

Post by ykonstant »

ddalex wrote: post #357
oneshtein wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy/print and stick a physical «webcam cover»[1] manually on your notebook or phone. My current notebook, manufactured in 2023, has very thin bar on top of screen with camera, so I need a thin, U-like attachment for the switch, which is hard to find. [1]: https://www.printables.com/model/2479-webcam-cover-slider

Am I the only one that is not worried at all about the camera and super concerned about microphones ? The camera may see me staring into the screen, woo hoo. The microphones will hear everything I discuss, incl. confidential information. There is no physical microphone cover there, is it ?

As someone who often speaks gibberish to myself due to ptsd, if someone recorded me in my room they could convince anyone I am utterly insane, beyond any hope. It is a great way to blackmail people with coprolalia or other verbal tics.

And yeah, if they had access to my webcam, they would just see a guy staring into the screen or walking back and forth in the room.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#387

Post by goodpoint »

meindnoch wrote: post #131
fph wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going into full paranoid mode, I wonder if some other sensors / components can be used as a makeshift microphone. For instance, a sufficiently accurate accelerometer can pick up vibrations, right? Maybe even the laser in a CD drive? Anything else?

Camera + bag of chips: https://people.csail.mit.edu/mrub/VisualMic/

Impossible with normal cameras.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#388

Post by jiggawatts »

bluGill wrote: post #248
daedrdev wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What law as been broken by not implementing this feature?

If they promise a feature they don't have that is falwe advertising.

The feature is an LED light next to the camera. They delivered it.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#389

Post by goodpoint »

paxys wrote: post #15
lxgr wrote: post #10

Arguably a much, much bigger problem are the (many) microphones of modern devices. These usually get neither an LED nor a switch, and unlike cameras can't easily be covered, nor pointed away from potentially sensitive topics/subjects.

No amount of microphones will ever be a bigger problem than a single compromising photo or video.

In most business environments it's the opposite.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#390

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

cjaackie wrote: post #353

It’s fun to find the intel 8051 in literally everything, this model webcam being no exception. So is it the most ubiquitous cpu ever or what?

Looks like it, I remember coding for it in 1991)
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