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Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#141

Post by kibwen »

l33tman wrote: post #121

How does the Macbook check the ambient light to determine the screen brightness, does it have a separate ambient light detector buried under the screen somewhere or inside the camera? (if the camera is not used for this I mean which would have been the best thing to do, but would require the camera to grab frames now and then without the LED flashing)

In this vein, apps on your phone likely have unrestrained access to the photosensor, and researchers have figured out how to take low-resolution photos with it: https://news.mit.edu/2024/study-smart-devices-ambient-light-...

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#142

Post by wusel »

l33tman wrote: post #121

How does the Macbook check the ambient light to determine the screen brightness, does it have a separate ambient light detector buried under the screen somewhere or inside the camera? (if the camera is not used for this I mean which would have been the best thing to do, but would require the camera to grab frames now and then without the LED flashing)

There is a third little dot near the camera you can see with a flashlight and that's an ambient light sensor.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#143

Post by Shekelphile »

sbarre wrote: post #3

I thought the whole point of these camera LEDs was to have them wired to/through the power to the camera, so they are always on when the camera is getting power, no matter what. Having the LED control exposed through the firmware completely defeats this.

Only apple does this properly.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#144

Post by wutwutwat »

epistasis wrote: post #17

I can see why some people might be concerned about the camera, but I'm far more concerned by the microphone. There's far more sensitive and actionable information that can be gathered from me that way! I'm glad that macOS started putting a light in the menubar when the microphone is in use, but I'd prefer to have unhackable hardware for that instead.

Miclocks are a thing, or any chopped 3.5mm 3 prong plug should do the trick

https://mic-lock.com/products/copy-of-mic-lock-3-5mm-metalli...

This still doesn't stop a program from switching the input from external back to the internal mics though afaik

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#145

Post by bluGill »

fph wrote: post #110
catlikesshrimp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soldering iron to the rescue. Locate the microphone and unsolder it. I haven't seen any microphone integrated in the processor. Yet

Going into full paranoid mode, I wonder if some other sensors / components can be used as a makeshift microphone. For instance, a sufficiently accurate accelerometer can pick up vibrations, right? Maybe even the laser in a CD drive? Anything else?

A condenser microphone is just a capacitor. Your computer is full of them.

They are very low level input and generally need a pre-amp just to get the signal outside the microphone. However conceptually at least they are there and so maybe someone can get it to work.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#147

Post by wutwutwat »

sbarre wrote: post #3

I thought the whole point of these camera LEDs was to have them wired to/through the power to the camera, so they are always on when the camera is getting power, no matter what. Having the LED control exposed through the firmware completely defeats this.

In the past I've used microsnitch on macos which tells you when the mic or camera are activated, but macos seems to have support for this baked into the os now. In zoom calls the menu bar shows what is active. If this can be sidestepped and avoided in software, and the camera can be activated without any indicator, I do not know. If direct access can be done, and you don't need to go through some apple api to hit the camera, maybe.

edit: looks easily bypassed https://github.com/cormiertyshawn895/RecordingIndicatorUtili...

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#149

Post by bennyg »

ryanisnan wrote: post #138
542458 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, modern Macbooks also hardware disable the mic when the lid is closed. https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/...

How is that true? I use my macbook mic occasionally with the lid closed, and an external monitor.

Plus one-ing this - I think the external monitor may be the kicker to keeping the mic active. This drives me up the wall when Google Meet decides to just default to the closed Macbook next to me instead of my already connected Air Pods when joining work meetings.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#150

Post by Loughla »

lxgr wrote: post #32
paxys wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of microphones will ever be a bigger problem than a single compromising photo or video.

Then you're lacking fantasy. For example, I'd not be happy having my voice auto-transcribed by some malware as I authenticate to my bank providing my SSN etc (which as an authentication method is of course horribly insecure, but that's a different discussion). Of course, this will vary from person to person, but as mentioned above, just being able to mechanically cover a camera when required makes it less of an issue…

I'm with you. I can recover from nudes of me being on the Internet. That night even help me filter out friends that aren't really friends.

If someone drains my accounts, I'm definitely screwed.

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