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Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

reuters.com

131–137 of 137 posts

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#131

Europe is entering a crisis of unprecedented proportions. This isn't just an isolated incident, one bad company, this is a trend. It used to be that subsidies managed to balance out the over-regulation, high labor costs and powerful pressure groups Europe was known for. Now it's no longer the case. There used to be a technological edge European countries (especially in the west) could rely on, which made them more su…

Sadly but true. The latest issue is that the EC would rather see the auto industry fail than to change its climate objectives. It looks like it gotten so bad that Germany started speaking up against emissions goals and most likely would try to block any measures. I don't think Arianne is successful as it relies on traditional technology to launch things into space and they can't be competitive with SpaceX. The EU is…

> AI regulation is in force, but no single AI company in Europe

DeepMind (UK)? Mistral AI (France)? ElevenLabs (UK)? Stability AI (UK)?

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very good point. Germany was always brilliant at mechanical engineering, their universities are decent in general, but very good at all forms of mechanical/chemical engineering. US is mad keen on software and entrepreneurship and its top universities churn out software startup founders like nowhere else. It's just a pity software ain't what it was 10 years ago. Perhaps the deep cadres of really well educated…

Sounds like a good balance - Europe does science, US entrepreneurs, China manufacturing.

Ha, well, it feels increasingly like China is eating everyone's lunch.

Fair play to them, that's only what the West had done for the past, hmm, 300 years? But of course a bit bleak for European and US GDP.

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#134
post #3

So what is the learning here, why did it fail? From the timeline it looks like it spread out too much and didn‘t create a great product first.

I found a post supposedly written by a Chinese supplier of Northvolt. Not sure how true it is though so you will have to find some insiders to validate the story. You will need some software to translate the picture into English/other languages.

https://imgur.com/AyQYtFj

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#135

NV bought manufacturing equipment for $2B from China, now left in the lurch during bring-up, supplier dragging their heels, sending 3rd rate support engineers. Of course, China doesn't want to support a competitor in Europe... Classic rogue state hybrid warfare, just as cut cables in baltic, also by Chinese. Plausible deniability all the way. https://www.newsweek.com/baltic-cable-sabotage-nato-1988689

This is what I’m seeing in social media elsewhere - reports of difficulty getting good support from Chinese suppliers.

I found a post supposedly written by a Chinese supplier of Northvolt. Not sure how true it is though so you need to find some insiders to validate the story. You will need some software to translate the picture into English/other languages.

https://imgur.com/AyQYtFj

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds interesting. Which country did you move to?

I'm in Spain now.

Being from the country with probably the worst pension system (and a government that is doubling down on it) with year on year deficit, and generational wealth gap, it's rich saying "we don't need to get richer".

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#137
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profits and subsidies are privatized, losses are socialized. That's how the system is designed to work.

People keep repeating this as if it was true. The Chinese and American battery manufacturers have received enormous subsidies. This factory is mostly financed on the private market, and some bonds from the EU investment bank, but comparably less. That hasn't helped. Subsidized competitors are hard to compete against. The German factory have indeed received some government subsidies. But that is not the factory with p…

Not just subsidies, even without them, this factory couldn't operate. The main issue is that there are too few educated workers to support a modern factory. I saw a comment from one of their suppliers on Chinese social media, and I use GPT to translate part of it:

- We, as the supplier, provide battery forming equipment, which includes a series of cells for storage. It's common sense for engineers that nothing except batteries should be placed in these cells. However, they used it to store clutter and notebooks, causing the production line to report errors and stop. Our project manager urgently responded to debug the issue, and their workers even asked where they could put all this mess?

- Regarding explosions. Dust explosion is a common knowledge for engineers. Their explosion happened because they used a regular vacuum cleaner to collect dust from the dust box (which contained metal dust from battery cutting), resulting in a dust explosion. No one knows what their maintenance team was doing. They were also looking for documentation from us, just to shift the blame. There was also another explosion with the oven purchased from a Korean supplier due to management issues that allowed air into the baking equipment.

- Their battery process and technology responsible person knows nothing as well. After we weld batteries, there's a leak testing process for ammonia. This person always asked us if we could use hydrogen because it's cheaper. He had no idea that hydrogen is an explosive gas. I wrote back a response of thousands of words explaining the principles, saying that this was absolutely not suitable because hydrogen itself is flammable and mixed with air would be a highly explosive mixture. He finally gave up on the idea.

Although these are just comments from social media, at least regarding the explosion, there have been other media reports on the issue.

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