Live data from Hacker News

Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

techcrunch.com

201–210 of 214 posts

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But AirBnb didn't "completely solve" the hotel industry, and hotels still exist. If anything, they seem to still basically be operating in the same space as they started: owner-based rentals, for both individual rooms and entire properties.

Ignoring local regulations, like Uber also was an "innovation". Uber is a net good since it reduces drunk driving. Not sure about Airbnb destroying the rental market...

Well, one data point: Airbnb cheap rooms allowed me to travel widely while in my twenties. I definitely couldn’t have done so if I needed to pay for hotels. This very much changed the trajectory of my life.

That said, I was an active member of couchsurfing.org prior to Airbnb eating its lunch, so maybe you could make the argument that we’d be off better as a whole with a free community-oriented platform.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#202
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked for a major ecommerce company that did this too - It was extremely unpleasant to work under (yet profitable if you won) and I don't like the practice but it was pretty effective. I'd guess that YC would take the "sea turtle" reproduction pattern here of hatching a bunch of mostly similar turtles and hoping a couple of them make it to sea. Stinks for the small guys that don't make it though.

Truly curious, why does it "stink" for the loser? Being funded with pay to pursue a failing business venture with a chance at wild financial success seems like a pretty good gig.

I can hypothesize that it may give startups the incentive to behave in reckless ways (e.g. pursue the MVP instead of the MVSP); think of the modern distortion of "ask for forgiveness, not permission" [0]:

> So “Ask forgiveness, not permission” meant:

    Do the right thing within the organization, whether or not they know it. That way you can help the people that you work for.
> It did NOT mean:

    Move the extrinsic cost to the public domain so that we can profit.

[0]: https://changelog.com/posts/what-admiral-grace-hopper-really...

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#203
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pelicans are brutal mindless beasts. They are known to fly to neighbour nests and eat other birds, sometimes other pelicans. So similar to companies.

Or, maybe they know exactly what they are doing. Nature has a tendency to ignore human ideas of justice and ethics. The will of the stronger is the primary “law” of nature.

Having evolutionary success does not mean having intelligence.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree and would add other reasons. It's always seemed obvious to me that YC would invest in multiple startups working on the same problem space for these reasons: First, compared to a traditional VC, YC is micro-investing in far more startups and doing so faster and more frequently. Second, YC highly prioritizes founder/team quality over ideas but teams come to YC by pitching an idea. I just read an article ye…

I wonder how successful market pivots are, on average. Seems like flailing to me. How can one take money to achieve x, build plans and hire people to achieve x, and then do y instead and not fall down in the necessary interval, unless the y product happens to be a side effect of x?

It's true that some startups just randomly try other ideas when the first one doesn't work - and some of those incorrectly call that flailing a "pivot." However, that isn't the actual concept behind pivoting.

Pivots are a thing because early stage startups are often pursuing an opportunity space they are betting is just emerging. Because of this there's often little data to go on when they start and they're making educated guesses about a bunch of things from product features, primary customer, go to market and business model. The concept is that a startup should very quickly develop an MVP which enables engaging with actual customers. That engagement often reveals which initial assumptions were incorrect. Hopefully they were incorrect not because they made a dumb mistake but because the correct answer was unknowable without testing.

That testing also sometimes reveals completely new customer and/or market information about a bigger opportunity in that area leading to a pivot. This is akin to sinking temporary test wells before building an oil derrick and pipeline. Even the best geology analysis can only give a probability of oil being found in a given location. Sometimes sinking test wells reveals the oil is actually a quarter mile to the East. That isn't really a pivot but more like product/market tuning. A surprising number of times, the process of sinking those test wells to discover oil leads to discovering something different but just as good like natural gas or something even better like gold. That's a canonical pivot. Experienced founders and VCs can pretty easily tell the difference between flailing and a pivot because the pivot is motivated by actual real-world customer/market response encountered while validating the first idea.

An example might be a startup whose first guess at the right product and customer was "An expense tracking program for sales people." After building a prototype or MVP and putting it the hands of some actual salespeople, they discover that, while nice to have, it's not compelling enough to buy. However, during their field visits to observe customers using the MVP they learn that field service engineers have a different but related problem in tracking parts inventory which is a major pain point.

In Steve Blank's legendary startup class at Stanford he teaches that initially a startup should be thought of as "a temporary experiment to discover a viable business." Once product/market fit and go to market are sufficiently validated with an MVP, then the process of building the real product and company begins.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#205
post #130
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The connection is that the conflict of interest being discussed was only ever a social/ethical contract. That social contract is in the bin right now, so the question is moot.

Individuals who voted for Trump don’t necessarily want to throw away a social contract. Many of them do support societal norms, albeit different ones. And some don’t even think in these terms; they are more motivated by other factors. Along with many, I think their collective actions point in a direction that (a) undermines democratic rule and (b) enables Trump’s corruption, but they seem to be relatively unaware or…

I don’t think I made the assertion that anyone wants to throw away a social contract.

I said it was in the bin — it has been thrown away, and not by recent Trump voters, but it started long before that, maybe when ethics became something you didn’t learn until or unless you went through a professional program.

Having talked with a few religious Trump voters that I consider intelligent, they have a larger picture of the world, whereas I think a lot of Harris voters (being vaguely irreligious/atheist) are implicitly making the USA their whole world. Trump voters do not see the risk the same way, and have faith elsewhere. For many Harris voters this was an existential issue. That all said, those Trump voters I spoke with still seemed apologetic.

However it came about, there clearly is a misalignment in the stated social values world, and that is why that social contract doesn’t exist anymore. Whether that is because family forces, or tribal forces, or identity forces, or something else carried the day instead, well, maybe the future historians can sort out.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#206
post #205
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individuals who voted for Trump don’t necessarily want to throw away a social contract. Many of them do support societal norms, albeit different ones. And some don’t even think in these terms; they are more motivated by other factors. Along with many, I think their collective actions point in a direction that (a) undermines democratic rule and (b) enables Trump’s corruption, but they seem to be relatively unaware or…

I don’t think I made the assertion that anyone wants to throw away a social contract. I said it was in the bin — it has been thrown away, and not by recent Trump voters, but it started long before that, maybe when ethics became something you didn’t learn until or unless you went through a professional program. Having talked with a few religious Trump voters that I consider intelligent, they have a larger picture of t…

[deleted]

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#207
post #205
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individuals who voted for Trump don’t necessarily want to throw away a social contract. Many of them do support societal norms, albeit different ones. And some don’t even think in these terms; they are more motivated by other factors. Along with many, I think their collective actions point in a direction that (a) undermines democratic rule and (b) enables Trump’s corruption, but they seem to be relatively unaware or…

I don’t think I made the assertion that anyone wants to throw away a social contract. I said it was in the bin — it has been thrown away, and not by recent Trump voters, but it started long before that, maybe when ethics became something you didn’t learn until or unless you went through a professional program. Having talked with a few religious Trump voters that I consider intelligent, they have a larger picture of t…

Two key points, which we probably agree on: (A) There are various flavors of social contracts. (B) Acceptance of any one social contract is a statistical thing, not a binary thing.

The most basic idea of a social contract is the legitimacy of a government to exist and function. This might mean to carry out various agreed-upon roles. And/or it might mean to operate according to some defined procedures, like the rule of law. The vast majority of people either consciously accept this or live as though they do. Of course there is variation on the proper role of government: does it include national defense, maintaining order, creating fair markets, collecting taxes, protecting civil liberties, internalizing economic externalities, investing in R&D, providing a healthcare floor, fighting corruption, etc?

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#208
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, maybe they know exactly what they are doing. Nature has a tendency to ignore human ideas of justice and ethics. The will of the stronger is the primary “law” of nature.

Having evolutionary success does not mean having intelligence.

For sure... but birds in general are surprisingly smart if you really pay attention. Even chickens are smarter than they usually get credit for. Chickens mostly lack the opportunity to learn...chickens raised in a completely open environment develop surprising behaviors and show unexpected insight.

Im guessing that pelicans, being predators, are probably much smarter.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks had been using alternatives to rent space like HomeAway.com, VRBO.com, BedandBreakfast.com and Craigslist for years. Airbnb won because: - Better design, easy to use, nice pictures they took themselves at first (per PG's advice) - Integrated payments and reviews in a seamless experience - Popularized the idea of sharing a space when the host is there - Offered unique accommodations in urban places - Lots of buz…

>> - Popularized the idea of sharing a space when the host is there this was not a popular option, and I don't believe was ever intended to be. It also opened the door for VRBO to gain traction explicitly marketing NOT sharing accommodation. The "rent out your spare bedroom" has never been a major component; it was a fake-out to counter the regulatory & licensing complaints they were facing.

In addition to the sibling comment saying that it was a major marketing focus, it was also an internal culture focus for some time - the archetypal host as discussed internally was something like a 50+ couple that just sent their kid off to college and had a spare bedroom and some free time. I didn't work there, but based on what I saw there was a genuine focus on "non-professional" hosts. If this was an intentional ploy to fool the world, they were also doing a very good job of fooling themselves too.

I'm not debating that professional, non-resident hosts were and are the majority of the platform, just that it wasn't the original intent.

Post reply on HN