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I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

benhouston3d.com

301–310 of 436 posts

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#301

I think Kubernetes config is a perfect target for AI. Conceptually k8s is not that complex but setting up and managing all YAML files with tons of boilerplate is very hard if you don’t do it every day. An AI should be the perfect tool to analyze the files and make changes.

Hard no.

There is already people who uses k8s that does not understand how it works or even know how the app works inside k8s.

Adding AI to it is just asking for a disaster down the line.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#302
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always kind of blown away by experiences like this. Admittedly, I've been using Kubernetes since the early days and I manage an Infra team that operates a couple thousand self-managed Kubernetes clusters so... expert blindness at work. Before that I did everything from golden images to pushing changes via rsync and kicking a script to deploy. Maybe it's because I adopted early and have grown with the technology i…

Those "necessary" add-ons and sidecars are out of control, but its the people problem. I'm part of the infra team and we manage just couple of k8s clusters, but those are quite big and have very high traffic load. The k8s + terraform code is simple, with no hacks, reliable and easy to upgrade. Our devs love it, we love it too and all of this makes my job pleasant and as little stressful as possible. But we recently h…

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Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#303
post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

I'll let you in on the joke. The joke is the demand for 100% availability and instant gratification. we're making services where anything less than 4 nines, which is 5 minutes month, is deemed unacceptable. three nines is 10 minutes a week. two nines is 15 minutes a day. there are some things that are important enough that you can't take a coffee break and wait for, but Kubernetes lets you push four nines of availabi…

Its a matter of evaluating what kind of infrastructure your application needs to run on. There are certainly mission critical systems where even a sliver of downtime causes real damage, like lost revenue. If you come to the conclusion that this application and everything it involves better run on k8s for availability reasons, you should probably focus on that and code your application in a k8s-friendly manner.

But there are tons of applications that run on over-engineered cloud environments that may or may not involve k8s and probably cost more to operate than they must. I use some tools every day where a daily 15 min downtime would not affect my or my work in the slightest. I am not saying this would be desirable per se. Its just that a lot of people (myself included) are happy to spend an hour of their work day talking to colleagues and drinking coffee, but a 15 min downtime of some tool is seen as an absolute catastrophe.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's say you want to deploy server instances. Let's keep it simple and say you want to have 2 instances running. You want to have zero-downtime-deployment. And you want to have these 2 instances be able to access configuration (that contains secrets). You want load balancing, with the option to integrate an external load balancer. And, last, you want to be able to run this setup both locally and also on at least…

Do you know of actual (not hypothetical) cases, where you could "flip a switch" and run the exact same Kubernetes setups on 2 different cloud providers?

If you are located in germany and run critial IT infrastructure (banks, insurance companies, energy companies) you have to be able to deal with a cloud provider completely going down in 24 houres. Not everyone who has to can really do it, but the big players can.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#306
post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

Kubernetes starts sucking at first sight and is kind of the sign of the ailment of modern times. Let me try to explain: First, you encounter the biggest impedance mismatch between cloud and on prem: Kubernetes works with pods, while AWS works with instances as the unit of useful work, so they must map to each other, right? Wrong, first each instance needs to run a Kubernetes node, which duplicates the management infr…

Run a node process on each core?

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#307
post #7
post #3

Interesting that the mania for over-investment in devops is beginning to abate. Here on Hacker News I was a steady critic of both Docker and Kubernetes, going to at least 2017, but most of these posts were unpopular. I have to go back to 2019 to find one that sparked a conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20371961 The stuff I posted about Kubernetes did not draw a conversation, but I was simply document…

It's just the hype moving on. Every generation has to make similar mistakes again and again. I am sure if we had the opportunity and the hype was there we would've used k8s in 2005 as well. The same thing is true for e.g. JavaScript on the frontend. I am currently migrating a project from React to HTMX. Suddenly there is no build step anymore. Some people were like: "That's possible?" Yes, yes it is and it turns out…

>Just as a carpenter doesn't use a hammer to saw, we as a profession should strive to use the right tool for the right job. (Albeit it's less clear than for the carpenter, granted)

The problem is that most devs don’t view themselves as carpenters. They view themselves as hammer capenters or saw carpenters etc…

It’s not entirely their fault, some of the tools are so complex that you really need to devote most of your time to 1 of them.

I realize that this kind of tool specialization is sometimes required, but I that it’s overused by at the very least an order of magnitude.

The vast majority of companies that are running k8s, react, kafka etc… with a team of 40+, would be better off running rails (or similar) on heroku (or similar), or a VPS, or a couple servers in the basement. Most of these companies could easily replace their enormous teams of hammer carpenters and saw carpenters with 3-4 carpenters.

But devs have their own gravity. The more devs you have the faster you draw in new ones, so it’s unclear to me if a setup like the above is sustainable long term outside of very specific circumstances.

But if it were simpler there wouldn’t be nearly many jobs, so I really shouldn’t complain. And it’s not like every other department isn’t also bloated.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#308
post #3

Interesting that the mania for over-investment in devops is beginning to abate. Here on Hacker News I was a steady critic of both Docker and Kubernetes, going to at least 2017, but most of these posts were unpopular. I have to go back to 2019 to find one that sparked a conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20371961 The stuff I posted about Kubernetes did not draw a conversation, but I was simply document…

Kubernetes, as an industry standard that a lot of people complain about is just a sitting duck waiting to be disrupted.

Anybody who doesn't have the money, time or engineering resources will jump on whatever appear as a decent alternative.

My intuition is that alternative already exist but I can't see it...

A bit like Spring emerged as an alternative to J2EE or what HTMX is to React & co.

Is it k3s or something more radical?

Is it on a chinese Github?

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#309
post #3

Interesting that the mania for over-investment in devops is beginning to abate. Here on Hacker News I was a steady critic of both Docker and Kubernetes, going to at least 2017, but most of these posts were unpopular. I have to go back to 2019 to find one that sparked a conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20371961 The stuff I posted about Kubernetes did not draw a conversation, but I was simply document…

People gravely miss-understand containerization and Docker. All it lets you do is put shell commands into a text file and be able to run it self-contained anywhere. What is there to hate? You still use the same local filesystem, the same host networking, still rsync your data dir, still use the same external MySQL server even if you want -- nothing has changed. You do NOT need a load balancer, a control plane, networ…

Why would you want to run it anywhere. People mostly select an OS and just update that. It may be great when distributing applications for others to host, but not when it’s the only strategy. I have to reverse engineer dockerfiles when the developer wouldn’t provide a proper documentation.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#310
post #216

The worst thing about the whole kubernetes-cult and the like is that IaC and CM was supposed to help us reduce configuration, to make it less prone to failure and easier to manage. But the truth is that we ran service based architecture, network meshes and containers with bash just fine before cloud everything, usually with less effort than it is to do literally anything today. Sure you had to know how to set up netw…

I agree with you, but can offer a counterpoint. A system administrator might setup a server in a certain way, and if they leave the replacement has a hard time discovering what they did.

With IaC, all decisions are templated in the code and the replacement has full insight into the state of the machine.

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