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I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

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Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#291

Post by gizzlon »

Deutschlandds wrote: post #290
tombert wrote: post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

I find it always interesting and weird to read so dimetrical points to kubernetes. 1. Cloud for me is a lot better than what we had before: Before i had to create a ticket for our internal it department, have huge cross-charges (like 500$ for a server, instead of 50), had to wait for a few weeks and than get lectured that installing basic default tools on that suse based server would take a week and add additional cr…

> shitty shell scripts, ansible setup and co, i only write a little bit of yaml

Why are the shell scripts shity but the yaml not? When I look at those yaml files I always throw up just a little :P

Also, have you tried Cloud Run?

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#292

Post by rqtwteye »

I think Kubernetes config is a perfect target for AI. Conceptually k8s is not that complex but setting up and managing all YAML files with tons of boilerplate is very hard if you don’t do it every day. An AI should be the perfect tool to analyze the files and make changes.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#293

Post by infecto »

honkycat wrote: post #24
lkrubner wrote: post #3

Interesting that the mania for over-investment in devops is beginning to abate. Here on Hacker News I was a steady critic of both Docker and Kubernetes, going to at least 2017, but most of these posts were unpopular. I have to go back to 2019 to find one that sparked a conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20371961 The stuff I posted about Kubernetes did not draw a conversation, but I was simply document…

Start-ups that don't need to scale will quickly go away, because how else are you going to make a profit? How have you been going since 2005 and still not understand the economics of software?

It's disappointing to see how tone deaf some users like yourself are. Such a immature way to speak.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#294

Post by valenterry »

wordofx wrote: post #263
valenterry wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's say you want to deploy server instances. Let's keep it simple and say you want to have 2 instances running. You want to have zero-downtime-deployment. And you want to have these 2 instances be able to access configuration (that contains secrets). You want load balancing, with the option to integrate an external load balancer. And, last, you want to be able to run this setup both locally and also on at least…

0 downtime. Jesus Christ. Nginx and HAProxy solved this shit decades ago. You can drop out a server or group. Deploy it. Add it back in. With a single telnet command. You don’t need junk containers to solve things like “0 downtime deployments”. That was a solved problem.

Calm down my friend!

You are not wrong, but that only covers a part of what I was asking. How about the rest? How do you actually bring your services to production? I'm curious.

And, PS, I don't use k8s. Just saying.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#295

Post by Havoc »

tombert wrote: post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

“let me install everything myself” doesn’t generalise well and gets messy even if you IaC it.

There is a reason k8s gang keeps going on about “cattle not pets”. The starting assumptions and goals are fundamentally different vs “give me a physical server”

Both have their place I think so not really one is right other is wrong

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#296

Post by namaria »

tommica wrote: post #126
figassis wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, all the sidecars. Use kubernetes to run your app like you would without it, take advantage of the flexibility, avoid the extra complexity. Service discovery sidecars? Why not just use the out of the box dns features?

Because new people don't know better - I've never used k8s, but have seen sidecars being promoted as a good thing, so I might have used them

Maybe the "I've heard about" approach to tooling is the problem here?

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#297

Post by tootubular »

mkesper wrote: post #261
tootubular wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal goto-solution for those requirements -- well 1 cloud provider, I'll follow up on that in a second -- would be using ECS or an equivalent service. I see the OP was a critic of Docker as well, but for me, ECS hits a sweet spot. I know the compute is at a premium, but at least in my use-cases, it's so far been a sensible trade. About the 2 cloud providers bit. Is that a common thing? I get wanting migrate aw…

Last time I checked ECS was even more expensive than using Lambda but without the ability of fast starting your container, so I really don't get the niche it fits into, compared to Lambda on one side and self-hosting docker on minimal EC2 instances on the other side.

I may need to look at Lambda closer! At least way back, I thought it was a no-go since the main runtime I work with is Ruby. As for minimal EC2 instances, definitely, I do that for environments where it makes sense and that's the case fairly often.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#298

Post by MonkeyClub »

deivid wrote: post #179
stiray wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would buy the book. Just translate all "new language" concepts into well known concepts from networking and system administration. It would be best seller. If I would only have a penny for each time I wasted hours trying to figure out what something in "modern IT" is, just to figure out that I already knew what it is, but it was well hidden under layers of newspeak...

This[0] is my take on something like that, but I'm no k8s expert -- the post documents my first contact with k8s and what/how I understood these concepts, from a sysadmin/SWE perspective. [0]: https://blog.davidv.dev/posts/first-contact-with-k8s/

And its related HN thread:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41093197

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#299

Post by sobellian »

fer wrote: post #163
sobellian wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EKS is priced at $876 / yr / cluster at current rates. Negligible for me personally, it's much less than either our EC2 or RDS costs.

Yeah, using EKS isn't the same thing as "administering k8s", unless I misread you above. Actual administration is already done for you, it's batteries included, turn-key, and integrated with everything AWS. A job ago we had our own k8s cluster in our own DC, and it required a couple of teams to keep running and reasonably integrated with everything else in the rest of the company. It was probably cheaper overall than…

You did misread me, I never said I administered k8s. The quoted phrase does not exist :)

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#300

Post by Havoc »

rqtwteye wrote: post #292

I think Kubernetes config is a perfect target for AI. Conceptually k8s is not that complex but setting up and managing all YAML files with tons of boilerplate is very hard if you don’t do it every day. An AI should be the perfect tool to analyze the files and make changes.

Busy using a fair bit of A.I. to produce yams manifests. It still hallucinates a fair bit and doesn’t connect the dots well between the various parts of you colour outside the lines even slightly

Works but feels substantially weaker than on coding tasks. Not sure whether that’s lack of training material or the lack of execution flow code has.

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