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I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

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Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#271

Post by jillesvangurp »

dikei wrote: post #228
jillesvangurp wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most small setups, the cost of running an empty kubernetes cluster (managed) is typically higher than setting up a db, a couple of vms and a loadbalancer, which goes a long way for running a simple service. Add some buckets, a CDN and you are pretty much good to go. If you need dedicated people just to stay on top of running your services, you have a problem that's costing you hundreds of thousands per year. Ther…

> For most small setups, the cost of running an empty kubernetes cluster (managed) is typically higher than setting up a db, a couple of vms and a loadbalancer, which goes a long way for running a simple service. Not really, the cost of an empty EKS cluster is the management fee of $0.1/hour, or roughly the price of a small EC2 instance.

0.1 * 24 * 30 = 720$/month

That's about 2x our monthly cloud expenses. That's not a small VM. You can buy a mac mini for that.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#272

Post by gigatexal »

tombert wrote: post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

The yaml and the k8s model can be grokked it just takes a willingness to.

That being said there are abstractions terraform, pulumi, others.

But my go to is always that most companies will never get to the point where k8s is required — most companies never get to that scale. A well maintained docker compose setup gets you a long way.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#273

Post by radicalbyte »

c03 wrote: post #150
radicalbyte wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book I read on K8S written by a core maintainer made is very clear.

Please don't mention it's name, we don't want anyone else reading it..

Kubernetes in Action

(I didn't have access to my email or Amazon account let alone my office when I posted so couldn't check the name of the book).

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#275

Post by withinboredom »

jq-r wrote: post #194
voidfunc wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always kind of blown away by experiences like this. Admittedly, I've been using Kubernetes since the early days and I manage an Infra team that operates a couple thousand self-managed Kubernetes clusters so... expert blindness at work. Before that I did everything from golden images to pushing changes via rsync and kicking a script to deploy. Maybe it's because I adopted early and have grown with the technology i…

Those "necessary" add-ons and sidecars are out of control, but its the people problem. I'm part of the infra team and we manage just couple of k8s clusters, but those are quite big and have very high traffic load. The k8s + terraform code is simple, with no hacks, reliable and easy to upgrade. Our devs love it, we love it too and all of this makes my job pleasant and as little stressful as possible. But we recently h…

> So its not inexperienced engineers wanting newest hotness because they have no idea how to solve stuff with the tools they have, its sometimes senior engineers trying to justify their salary, "seniority" by buying into complexity as they try to make themselves irreplaceable.

The grass is always greener where you water it. They joined your company because the grass was greener there than anywhere else they could get an offer at. They want to keep it that way or make it even greener. Assuming that someone is doing something to become 'irreplaceable' is probably not healthy.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#276

Post by radicalbyte »

jpalomaki wrote: post #156
radicalbyte wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book I read on K8S written by a core maintainer made is very clear.

Is it this one, Kubernetes: Up and Running, 3rd Edition by Brendan Burns, Joe Beda, Kelsey Hightower, Lachlan Evenson from 2022? https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/kubernetes-up-and/97810... (edit: found the 3rd edition)

No, Kubernetes in Action, but that book was also on my radar (mainly as Kelsey Hightower's name reminds me of the Police Academy films I loved as a kid).

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#277

Post by ajayvk »

MortyWaves wrote: post #260
ajayvk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along those lines, I am building https://github.com/claceio/clace for teams to deploy internal tools. It provides a Cloud Run type interface to run containers, including scaling down to zero. It implements an application server than runs containerized apps. Since HTMX was mentioned, Clace also makes it easy to build Hypermedia driven apps.

Would you be open to non Python support as well? This tool seems useful, very useful in fact, but I mainly use .NET (which yes can run very well in containers).

Starlark (python like config language) is used to configure Clace. For containerized apps, python frameworks are supported without a Dockerfile being required. All other languages currently require a user provided Dockerfile, the `container` spec can be used.

I do plan to add specs for other languages. New specs have to be added here https://github.com/claceio/appspecs. New specs can be created locally also in the config, see https://clace.io/docs/develop/#building-apps-from-spec

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#278

Post by khafra »

voidfunc wrote: post #107
tombert wrote: post #90

I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate “cloud shit”, and a small part of me is convinced that literally no one actually likes it, and everyone is playing a joke on me. I have set up about a dozen rack mount servers in my life, installing basically every flavor of Unix and Linux and message busses under the sun in the process, but I still get confused by all the Kubectl commands and GCP integration with it. I might j…

I'm always kind of blown away by experiences like this. Admittedly, I've been using Kubernetes since the early days and I manage an Infra team that operates a couple thousand self-managed Kubernetes clusters so... expert blindness at work. Before that I did everything from golden images to pushing changes via rsync and kicking a script to deploy. Maybe it's because I adopted early and have grown with the technology i…

Container orchestration is second nature to us SRE's, so it's easy to forget that the average dev probably only knows the syntax for deployments and one or two service manifests.

And pods, of course

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#279

Post by dikei »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #271
dikei wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most small setups, the cost of running an empty kubernetes cluster (managed) is typically higher than setting up a db, a couple of vms and a loadbalancer, which goes a long way for running a simple service. Not really, the cost of an empty EKS cluster is the management fee of $0.1/hour, or roughly the price of a small EC2 instance.

0.1 * 24 * 30 = 720$/month That's about 2x our monthly cloud expenses. That's not a small VM. You can buy a mac mini for that.

$72

Though if you are only spending $350 monthly on VM, Database and Load Balancer, you can probably count resource instances by hand, and don't need a K8S cluster yet.

Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either

#280

Post by ysofunny »

jq-r wrote: post #194
voidfunc wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always kind of blown away by experiences like this. Admittedly, I've been using Kubernetes since the early days and I manage an Infra team that operates a couple thousand self-managed Kubernetes clusters so... expert blindness at work. Before that I did everything from golden images to pushing changes via rsync and kicking a script to deploy. Maybe it's because I adopted early and have grown with the technology i…

Those "necessary" add-ons and sidecars are out of control, but its the people problem. I'm part of the infra team and we manage just couple of k8s clusters, but those are quite big and have very high traffic load. The k8s + terraform code is simple, with no hacks, reliable and easy to upgrade. Our devs love it, we love it too and all of this makes my job pleasant and as little stressful as possible. But we recently h…

> Then its "we need a different ingress controller, X is crap Y surely is much better!" etc.

I regard these as traits of a junior dev. they're thinking technology-first, not problem-first

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