[deleted]
I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
11–20 of 436 posts
Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
#12Interesting that the mania for over-investment in devops is beginning to abate. Here on Hacker News I was a steady critic of both Docker and Kubernetes, going to at least 2017, but most of these posts were unpopular. I have to go back to 2019 to find one that sparked a conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20371961 The stuff I posted about Kubernetes did not draw a conversation, but I was simply document…
So, let's say you want to deploy server instances. Let's keep it simple and say you want to have 2 instances running. You want to have zero-downtime-deployment. And you want to have these 2 instances be able to access configuration (that contains secrets). You want load balancing, with the option to integrate an external load balancer. And, last, you want to be able to run this setup both locally and also on at least 2 cloud providers. (EDIT: I meant to be able to run it on 2 cloud providers. Meaning, one at a time, not both at the same time. The idea is that it's easy to migrate if necessary)
This is certainly a small subset of what kubernetes offers, but I'm curious, what would be your goto-solution for those requirements?
Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
#13Interesting that the mania for over-investment in devops is beginning to abate. Here on Hacker News I was a steady critic of both Docker and Kubernetes, going to at least 2017, but most of these posts were unpopular. I have to go back to 2019 to find one that sparked a conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20371961 The stuff I posted about Kubernetes did not draw a conversation, but I was simply document…
It's just the hype moving on. Every generation has to make similar mistakes again and again. I am sure if we had the opportunity and the hype was there we would've used k8s in 2005 as well. The same thing is true for e.g. JavaScript on the frontend. I am currently migrating a project from React to HTMX. Suddenly there is no build step anymore. Some people were like: "That's possible?" Yes, yes it is and it turns out…
> Just as a carpenter doesn't use a hammer to saw, we as a profession should strive to use the right tool for the right job
I think this is a gross misunderstanding of the complexity of tools available to carpenters. Use a saw. Sure, electric, hand powered? Bandsaw, chop saw, jigsaw, scrollsaw? What about using CAD to control the saw?
> Suddenly there is no build step anymore
How do you handle making sure the JS you write works on all the browsers you want to support? Likewise for CSS: do you use something like autoprefixer? Or do you just memorize all the vendor prefixes?
Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
#14K8s always seems like the tool that people choose to avoid cloud vendor lock in but there is something to be said for C k8s lock in as well as the article points out. If you end up with exotic networking or file system mounts you can just be stuck maintaining k8s forever and some updates aren’t so stable so you have to be more vigilant that windows updates.
I don't think it makes sense to conflate vendor lock-in with taking a dependency on a given technology. Do we then have "Linux lock-in" and "Postgres lock-in"? The term "lock-in" shouldn't be stretched to cover this concept imo.
Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
#15Kubernetes has a steep learning curve, and certainly a lot of complexity, but when used appropriately for the right case, by god it's glorious
Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
#16Interesting that the mania for over-investment in devops is beginning to abate. Here on Hacker News I was a steady critic of both Docker and Kubernetes, going to at least 2017, but most of these posts were unpopular. I have to go back to 2019 to find one that sparked a conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20371961 The stuff I posted about Kubernetes did not draw a conversation, but I was simply document…
So, let's say you want to deploy server instances. Let's keep it simple and say you want to have 2 instances running. You want to have zero-downtime-deployment. And you want to have these 2 instances be able to access configuration (that contains secrets). You want load balancing, with the option to integrate an external load balancer. And, last, you want to be able to run this setup both locally and also on at least…
Do you know of actual (not hypothetical) cases, where you could "flip a switch" and run the exact same Kubernetes setups on 2 different cloud providers?
Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
#17Except that all of this subjects you and all of your workloads to warrantless US government surveillance due to running in the big public clouds.
I personally don’t want the federal government being able to peek into my files and data at any time, even though I’ve done nothing wrong. It’s the innocent people who have most to lose from government intrusion.
It seems insane to me to just throw up one’s hands and store private data in Google or Amazon clouds, especially when not doing so is so much cheaper.
Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
#18Related:
Dear friend, you have built a Kubernetes
Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
#19Kubernetes has a steep learning curve, and certainly a lot of complexity, but when used appropriately for the right case, by god it's glorious
Kubernetes has a proportional learning curve.
If you're used to managing platforms e.g. networking, load balancers, security etc. then it's intuitive and easy.
If you're used to everything being managed for you then it will feel steep.
Re: I Didn't Need Kubernetes, and You Probably Don't Either
#20The "You Probably Don't Either" is a little presumptuous. Many projects probably don't need cloud run either. Certainly, many projects shouldn't even be started in the first place.
I work with Kubernetes enough that I would answer to the title "kubernetes developer" and I would recommend you don't use kubernetes. In the same way I would recommend you don't use a car when you can walk.
Your friend lives 1/8 miles away. You go to see them every day so why wouldn't you drive? Well, cars are expensive and you should avoid them if you don't need them. There are a TON of downsides to driving a car 1/4 of a mile every day. And there are a TON of benefits to using a car to drive 25 miles every day.
I hate to quash a good debate but this all falls under the predictable but often forgotten "it depends". Usually do you need kubernetes == do you have a lot of shit to run.