Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cybertruck's Many Recalls

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 463 posts

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#391

Post by s1artibartfast »

WindyMiller wrote: post #376
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me revise that: I’d be surprised if more than half of the trucks on the road have ever hauled anything. > cybertruck can’t really haul things, it can’t really tow things, and it can’t be that fun to drive This reminds me of people who complain about expensive garments being impractical. That isn’t the point. They’re articles of fashion. Same as most trucks and sports cars. Cybertruck is outselling the F-150 Light…

> They’re articles of fashion. Hard to square this with: > There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them. Whether or not other people like your look is of course not the be-all and end-all of fashion, but it's certainly relevant. "I don't like how it looks" is a legitimate criticism of an article of fashion.

I think this is an interesting point. What IS a criticism of fashion, and how should it be taken?

"I dont like how this looks" isnt a universal truth, and isn't a prescription for others.

It seems like with the CT, there is a vocal group of people who seem upset that others like them and that they exist at all. I seems to extend from "I dont like how it looks, and you cant either."

I think they look cool and fun. Cost an utility wise, I'll take my contractor truck every time. I understand however that other people have more money and different priorities.

I suspect what people are actually bothered by is the underlying reality that some people simply have an extra $80k to drop on a truck because that is cool and fun for them.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#392

Post by nobody9999 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #385
piyuv wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on a definition of “many”. Trump is regarded as a great leader by “many”. I guess the sets have a big intersection?

You might even say a majority.

>You might even say a majority.

One might, but that would be incorrect. Trump received ~77,000,000 votes[0], which was 49.9% of the votes cast. As such, plurality is the appropriate term in this case.

What's more, there were ~240,000,000 eligible voters and ~161,000,000 registered voters at the time of the 2024 election.[1]

So the winner received less than a majority of votes cast by a small margin, and less so among registered voters (~48%) and even less so among eligible voters (32%).

[0] https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-ELECTION/RESULTS/zjpqne...

[1] https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/election-explained-ho...

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#393

Post by Tostino »

liontwist wrote: post #386
Tostino wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All new cars are required to have backup cameras, so manufacturers have used that "freedom" to change car shapes. Not only Tesla.

I can’t understand why a regulatory group would feel the need to make that a requirement. That vastly increases the cost to develop a vehicle. Why can’t I choose that feature as a consumer? Did their brother in law have the patent for backing cameras?

I get it, but the reasoning behind it was that little kids kept getting run over by their parents / family members because they couldn't see them.

The cost at this point is pretty negligible.

Mandate went into effect (in the US) in 2018: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup_camera#Mandates

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#394

Post by s1artibartfast »

at_a_remove wrote: post #216

I recently saw one painted primer black and immediately felt like going home so I could watch Johnny Mnemonic . It appears to be a triumph of aesthetic over function, needing only EL-wire underlighting to look like it escaped from the Tron storyboards and into low-poly life. I could only wonder if the entertainment system comes with a hidden Sirius/XM channel that only plays vaporwave music.

That honestly sounds amazing. If I win the lottery, my first purchase will be a flat black CT with EL-wire to bump the Tron soundtrack.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#395

Post by TeMPOraL »

lapcat wrote: post #273
schiffern wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot here about technical and legal definitions, but from the customer's perspective what they mostly care about is the inconvenience associated with a physical recall. Most people are accustomed to our phones and devices (auto-)updating, so software recalls just get mentally bundled in with that. The reporting seems dishonest because (in the mind of most readers) the headline exaggerates the inconvenience o…

> There's a lot here about technical and legal definitions, but from the customer's perspective what they mostly care about is the inconvenience associated with a physical recall. No, customers care about the safety of their vehicles. If there wasn't a safety issue, then customers could safely ignore the recall notice and experience no inconvenience.

> No, customers care about the safety of their vehicles.

Yes. But safety is a spectrum, and is denominated in inconvenience against perceived expected loss - perceived, because people round the loss down to 0 when they feel like it won't happen to them.

See: how many people don't fasten their seat belts, or hold a phone in their hand while driving, despite both being highly dangerous to life, limb and wallet, and against huge social and regulatory pressure.

See also: how many people ignore or tape over error lights on the dashboard; how many people don't repair stuff until absolutely necessary.

See also: how many people try to bribe their way through yearly inspections, and would happily skip them entirely if the law didn't force them.

So it's like GP said: people mostly care about how much time and money they're going to waste on the newly discovered problem. A recall involving the car being physically taken to manufacturer is hugely disturbing, possibly very costly (it's not like most people drive for fun). A recall involving an OTA update? That's "just another auto-update ¯\_(ツ)_/¯". Most people won't even notice it happening.

Putting the two types of "recall" in the same class is, from regular person's POV, deception through equivocation.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#396

Post by tzs »

graemep wrote: post #160
imiric wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that those issues shouldn't happen on a public road vehicle to begin with. Tesla's approach is shipping beta software to customers, and using them as testers. This is an insidious practice in modern software development, but is criminal when that software is running a 3-ton vehicle, regardless if it can be fixed with an OTA update or not. There are reasons why strict car safety regulations exist. You c…

I wonder whether OTA updates being possible encourages manufacturers to be sloppy with software quality. They know they can fix problems cheaply. If they had to physically update vehicles they would have a lot more incentive to make updates unnecessary.

It sure seems to be that way with pure software products. I'd not be surprised if is the same with embedded software in things like cars if they can be easily updated.

Back in the days before home internet was common I worked at a place that developed software for personal computers. The software was sold in retail stores such as Egghead, CompUSA, etc on floppy or CD.

Management was very insistent on high software quality. If a bug got through that was bad enough that an update to existing customers was needed the only option, aside from the small number of customers who would be able to use a modem to download an update from a dial up BBS, would be for us to mail them a floppy or CD with the update.

Even minor bugs that could be easily worked around by the customer were bad, because we had no means of contacting our customers except by writing or calling those who had filled out and returned in the prepaid registration card that was in the box when they bought the software. Instead what would happen is they would call our toll free support line.

Remember, this was not a subscription service. It's a one time purchase. If someone needs a long support call to solve a problem that could easily wipe out all profit made on that customer and more.

This wasn't just about bugs. If they had trouble using some feature due to poor UI or inadequate documentation that also meant calls to the toll free support line and so management also was very insistent on clear, well written, comprehensive documentation.

Compare to today. Updates are easy, you can have FAQs and searchable support articles on your website, someone will make a Reddit group where your customers can help each other, there will be bloggers and YouTubers posting tricks and solutions that in the old days would have been in the manual, and no one expects everything to work in any given release.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#397

Post by TeMPOraL »

liontwist wrote: post #380
imiric wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Back in the day it was a major milestone for video game projects to "go gold". It meant that the rigorous QA process was passed, and that retail copies were ready to be manufactured. Since that involved significant costs and physical logistics, companies certainly didn't want major bugs shipped at this stage. There were some exceptions, but ultimately this led to much higher customer satisfaction. Removing t…

It’s also bad for preservation because the disc doesn’t actually have the playable game anymore.

Indeed; at this point, a disk is just treated as a cache for speeding up the initial installation.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#398

Post by TeMPOraL »

thrw42A8N wrote: post #302
imiric wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Back in the day it was a major milestone for video game projects to "go gold". It meant that the rigorous QA process was passed, and that retail copies were ready to be manufactured. Since that involved significant costs and physical logistics, companies certainly didn't want major bugs shipped at this stage. There were some exceptions, but ultimately this led to much higher customer satisfaction. Removing t…

I get it's wrong in cars. But who the hell cares about games? So your game updates after a month with a fix. So what? It's not like you pay for the update.

> So your game updates after a month with a fix.

Tell that to your kid this December, when you gift them a new console and a newly released game. Watch the wonderful experience of it taking forever to download a few gigabytes of patches from overloaded servers, and then not starting anyway because auth/billing/DRM/other bullshit server couldn't handle the demand.

Game studios love releasing around Christmas. I'm surprised they're not being held accountable for ruining that holiday for kids year over year.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#399

Post by siva7 »

dagw wrote: post #246
orwin wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who have 100k to burn on a car are middle-class? What's the median yearly income in the US? 90k?

You can apparently lease a Cybertruck starting at $1000/month. That is definitely within range for someone on a 90k income, even if it is isn't the most financially smart thing you can do.

What? More like 190k income needed to even get a quote

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#400

Post by liontwist »

Tostino wrote: post #393
liontwist wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t understand why a regulatory group would feel the need to make that a requirement. That vastly increases the cost to develop a vehicle. Why can’t I choose that feature as a consumer? Did their brother in law have the patent for backing cameras?

I get it, but the reasoning behind it was that little kids kept getting run over by their parents / family members because they couldn't see them. The cost at this point is pretty negligible. Mandate went into effect (in the US) in 2018: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup_camera#Mandates

Thanks for the info.

Yeah the cost is negligible if you are already planning to have a screen running chrome on Ubuntu server, but I hope it was still an option not to have that.

Post reply on HN