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How the Ivy League Broke America

theatlantic.com

91–99 of 99 posts

Re: How the Ivy League Broke America

#91
post #12

> And yet it’s not obvious that we have produced either a better leadership class or a healthier relationship between our society and its elites Part of the problem is as follows and I see it so often in politics. We have an excellent technocratic leadership class. But being a technocratic leader does not make you a great leader of people, and frankly -- given the way many technocratic fields in the humanities are ta…

> It's not a surprise to me that the Kennedy family, being Catholic, the exact opposite of Buddhism in that sense, was always seen as particularly charismatic and alluring amongst political dynasties I don't think the "technocrats" (or whatever they're called, "materialistic liberals", yada yada) are drawn to Buddhism and stoicism because of their actual content. Platonism is an extreme form of a detachment style phi…

> Platonism and Christianity are brother and sister

While certainly many Christian philosophers cite Platonism, I think you're missing the point. Buddhism encourages a detached style of living life. In practice, in its traditional form, I don't think it suggests ignoring relationships and turning inwards. However, in the practice of America's aristocracy, it takes on these tones.

However, Christianity, especially Catholic Christianity, is explicitly in favor of attachment to people. It's not like Buddhism in that sense, and especially not the pop 'Buddhism' practiced in cities by young Americans today.

Re: How the Ivy League Broke America

#92
post #80
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are surprised over Trump, because of what it applies[do you mean implies?] about conservative peoples hypocrisy. Technocrats talk about hypocrits. Lovers of the humanities talk about people. People don't operate on principles. They operate on human emotion, which is a very real force. It is no less real than facts, figure, logic, or rationality. Trump's shooting, his McDonald's stunt, his garbage vest/truck,…

“President Biden (a graduate of the Ivies if I'm not mistaken)” You’re quite mistaken there: he did his undergrad at the very public University of Delaware, and went to law school at private but definitely not Ivy League Syracuse.

Oh interesting. TIL!

Re: How the Ivy League Broke America

#93

Long essay, but I agree with a lot of what's said. I think a lot of quality time is wasted due to the rat race starting in early childhood. I live in a bit of a bubble in the commuter belt around London (ie not the US), but I observe some of the same obsessions here as well. In particular, I started to notice that my kid's friends suddenly had a lot less time for playdates in the year or two leading up to the 11-plus…

> The parents are a bunch of professionals, virtually nobody doing anything else, and most kids went to private primaries + got tutored. We must have left some poor but capable kids in the wrong school.

The idea that the school you go to matters for your career seems unsupported by evidence (outside of consulting, law, medicine and investment banking). Most people don't go to ivy league schools (by definition). Looking around at senior leaders at most of the tech companies I have worked at, very few of them are Ivy leaguers. The Ivy League has a really great brand but the impact is overblown imho.

Re: How the Ivy League Broke America

#94

Long essay, but I agree with a lot of what's said. I think a lot of quality time is wasted due to the rat race starting in early childhood. I live in a bit of a bubble in the commuter belt around London (ie not the US), but I observe some of the same obsessions here as well. In particular, I started to notice that my kid's friends suddenly had a lot less time for playdates in the year or two leading up to the 11-plus…

> The parents are a bunch of professionals, virtually nobody doing anything else, and most kids went to private primaries + got tutored. We must have left some poor but capable kids in the wrong school. The idea that the school you go to matters for your career seems unsupported by evidence (outside of consulting, law, medicine and investment banking). Most people don't go to ivy league schools (by definition). Looki…

I think you are looking at the wrong metric here.

It’s not about “how many successful people out there didn’t go to the Ivy League”, it’s about “how likely is it that _my kid_ will be successful?”. And the Ivy League really has a major impact on the latter metric. (I mean successful in the classic boring way here - completely agree that this is a very debatable goal, but that’s not my point)

Re: How the Ivy League Broke America

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The parents are a bunch of professionals, virtually nobody doing anything else, and most kids went to private primaries + got tutored. We must have left some poor but capable kids in the wrong school. The idea that the school you go to matters for your career seems unsupported by evidence (outside of consulting, law, medicine and investment banking). Most people don't go to ivy league schools (by definition). Looki…

I think you are looking at the wrong metric here. It’s not about “how many successful people out there didn’t go to the Ivy League”, it’s about “how likely is it that _my kid_ will be successful?”. And the Ivy League really has a major impact on the latter metric. (I mean successful in the classic boring way here - completely agree that this is a very debatable goal, but that’s not my point)

But that's my argument exactly. Even if kids with Ivy League degrees disproportionately have successful careers, lots of non-Ivy League kids also go on to have very successful careers. One possible explanation is that the Ivy Leagues are just really good at spotting talent early and not that they are actually responsible for building the talent. Going to an Ivy League school might be an indication that you are smart, hardworking and driven. However, if you were not already that way, the school is not going to transform you into someone who is.

Re: How the Ivy League Broke America

#96

Long essay, but I agree with a lot of what's said. I think a lot of quality time is wasted due to the rat race starting in early childhood. I live in a bit of a bubble in the commuter belt around London (ie not the US), but I observe some of the same obsessions here as well. In particular, I started to notice that my kid's friends suddenly had a lot less time for playdates in the year or two leading up to the 11-plus…

> The parents are a bunch of professionals, virtually nobody doing anything else, and most kids went to private primaries + got tutored. We must have left some poor but capable kids in the wrong school. The idea that the school you go to matters for your career seems unsupported by evidence (outside of consulting, law, medicine and investment banking). Most people don't go to ivy league schools (by definition). Looki…

> outside of consulting, law, medicine and investment banking

The exact kinds of jobs that the parents are working and hate, but are scared of their kids not being able to get.

Re: How the Ivy League Broke America

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYers are also still relocating to FL (& less prominently, to TX), according to VizCap https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-top-5-states-ame...

if it's still true, one reason for high-variance NYers to relocate to FL was that under FL bankruptcy laws, personal homes were exempt — which used to mean that buying something fancy in FL and domiciling there was a way to "lock in" gains for those who suspected their random walks might also hit an absorbing barrier at "zero"...

In the 1960s already, the culture premium for all ranks (not sure about the property insurance) was famously lower in Miyamifla than in Haarlem?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_Cowboy

Re: How the Ivy League Broke America

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are looking at the wrong metric here. It’s not about “how many successful people out there didn’t go to the Ivy League”, it’s about “how likely is it that _my kid_ will be successful?”. And the Ivy League really has a major impact on the latter metric. (I mean successful in the classic boring way here - completely agree that this is a very debatable goal, but that’s not my point)

But that's my argument exactly. Even if kids with Ivy League degrees disproportionately have successful careers, lots of non-Ivy League kids also go on to have very successful careers. One possible explanation is that the Ivy Leagues are just really good at spotting talent early and not that they are actually responsible for building the talent. Going to an Ivy League school might be an indication that you are smart,…

Ivy League will not make you smart, no, it will make you successful with a very high probability. This is what is important to most parent, that’s what they pay for, this probability.

Re: How the Ivy League Broke America

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it's still true, one reason for high-variance NYers to relocate to FL was that under FL bankruptcy laws, personal homes were exempt — which used to mean that buying something fancy in FL and domiciling there was a way to "lock in" gains for those who suspected their random walks might also hit an absorbing barrier at "zero"...

In the 1960s already, the culture premium for all ranks (not sure about the property insurance) was famously lower in Miyamifla than in Haarlem? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_Cowboy

Salt meets Bourdieu: "Hey, I'm classifiyin' here..."

> My father's out of Harvard, my brother's out of Yale / Well, the guy I took home last night just got out of jail —JAB

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