Earlier quoted context omitted.
The existence of other death machines that should not be legal does not undermine the parent's point that this death machine should be illegal. I don't think they said only the cyber truck should be illegal.
You're trying to say the machine itself is the problem, when it's not the machine it's the operator. You're trying to shift blame here.
Cybertruck's Many Recalls
371–380 of 463 posts
Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Google "definition of product recall" I did, just to be safe, once again look up the legal definition of recall (both in regard to cars and other products) and continue to find that it was never written in a way that would make OTA not fit the term. It isn't limited to vehicles, but extends even to perishables for which a physical return directly to the manufacturer is not expected even using a more liberal interpr…
Yeah, the argument is about the legal definition being misleading and confusing and what should be changed, because of the bias and meaning of the word "recall". The fact that most google results will imply physical return of the product is evidence of popular definition and legal definition diverging. In addition the word inherently implies bring it back because of the "re". It doesn't imply "there's a safety issue…
If we go by what "it seem[s] like" (to a layperson), we could reasonably argue that the word (scientific) "theory" should be changed because a significant part of the populus confuses that with the definition of hypothesis.
This also, again, ignores that, long before OTA was a thing for cars, the logistics behind recalls for items ranging from meat, over mattresses, to medical equipment, etc. differed widely in execution and financial impact, yet again, have all been covered under the same term.
This started because you stated that by considering severe safety issues as recalls we'd have to adapt to a "new meaning", simply because you felt it is weird that OTA addressable safety issues are covered by that, when this has historically been the accepted, commonly used and well worn definition. If you want to change it, than more power to you, but don't claim that yours is the original definition, when it isn't. Especially since terms like these are regulated to ensure companies cannot weasel around them.
> In my native language the term "recall" has even stronger implications of physical return, it means "call to bring it back".
German? If we go purely by the literal definition of words, then I'd question why no one ever saw fit to complain that a recall/Rückruf rarely contains an actual call (or shout in the case of German) to the customers affected.
Add to that, is it really reasonable to just point at the most literal definition a, both well established and for good reasons regulated, word has? One that, again, has been in use for decades across many product types where the remedy was not having to bring the item to a garage for a fix to get wrenched on?
Idiomatic expressions exist, I hope deadlines aren't taken literally at any modern workplace.
Nilpferd also sounds bizarre considering they are closer to whales than horses, evolutinary speaking, yet we somehow manage, so I feel Rückruf isn't even close to the worst offender in that regard.
Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just Tesla. All the online services you depend on are run this way, and none of it's regulated. Governments don't know how to regulate software companies like Tesla. They know how to regulate people constructing homes, cooking food, and building bridges but most attempts at regulating software development have petered out. This is a good thing. Thanks to Tesla's modern approach to car manufacturing it is now…
People who have 100k to burn on a car are middle-class? What's the median yearly income in the US? 90k?
I have NEVER heard that. It makes zero sense and sounds more like the fever dream of a Teslarati: "Wow, I know the median home price in my area is $500K, and the median household income $80K, but all of a sudden there is this explosion of million dollar Teslas on the road!"
Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls
#374[flagged]
AFAIK these monstrosities are not road-legal in Europe, so you're unlikely to see them.
Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls
#375The article notes that the most recent recall was a physical one, not a software update, and implies that that was unusual. I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then?
Very few others have recalls that can be done OTA. Even if it is just software, expect an hour to days at a service center to do the update, if the techs can figure it out. For Tesla, the software recalls are nearly automatic (one click install, just like other update), such that few owners even know that their car ever had a recall.
Ahh, yes, the dinosaurs and their bumbling cavemen 'techs'.
Meanwhile in the real world, while my Audi gets a lot of OTA updates, updates done at the dealership are done by plugging a USB drive into the car.
Hopefully the techs can figure that out, if we give them a few days...
Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even taken at face value: > Most people don’t buy a truck to haul. But if they do need to haul or tow something, they can. > Most people don’t buy an off-roader to go off road. But if they do need to go off-road, they can. > Most people don’t buy a sports car to race. Sports cars can be enjoyed (relatively) legally on the street. Quick acceleration combined with very good handling and a sense of connection to the roa…
Let me revise that: I’d be surprised if more than half of the trucks on the road have ever hauled anything. > cybertruck can’t really haul things, it can’t really tow things, and it can’t be that fun to drive This reminds me of people who complain about expensive garments being impractical. That isn’t the point. They’re articles of fashion. Same as most trucks and sports cars. Cybertruck is outselling the F-150 Light…
Hard to square this with:
> There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them.
Whether or not other people like your look is of course not the be-all and end-all of fashion, but it's certainly relevant. "I don't like how it looks" is a legitimate criticism of an article of fashion.
Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the term right wing folks use? Virtue Signaling? The cyber truck is that. People buy them because they are politically charged, and you can be seen as a tribe member. But I kinda think it's sad, because I think most tribes make fun of the cyber truck buyer, so they've bought a very expensive, very shoddy ticket into an in group, only to mark themselves as an outsider who bought their way in.
CT owner here. Maybe I’m just more boring than the usual person who gets this truck, but my reasoning for getting one was a lot more simple than this. “My Teslas have been great, this one looks cool, my family can benefit from having a truck, I’ll put down a deposit!” Not sure which group I was supposed to be buying a ticket into. Around where I live the group seems to be Asian men with families, but I was already a…
Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the term right wing folks use? Virtue Signaling? The cyber truck is that. People buy them because they are politically charged, and you can be seen as a tribe member. But I kinda think it's sad, because I think most tribes make fun of the cyber truck buyer, so they've bought a very expensive, very shoddy ticket into an in group, only to mark themselves as an outsider who bought their way in.
I'm a leftist and would definitely buy a cyber truck if I could park it easily
Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls
#379Dude, the thing with these things is that the breathlessness has already exhausted belief. Supposedly Tesla Y was a terrible thing, supposedly everyone was going to die in the heat under the Tesla tent, supposedly Twitter would die in 3 days without their staff. Nothing happened. Everyone I know who owns a Tesla loves it. So I’m going to file this under “internet hates guy; tries to make it sound like he makes bad th…
> Everyone I know who owns a Tesla loves it Where do you live? In the bay area, I know a lot of Tesla owners, and 100% of them are absolutely sick of Elon's antics and are not considering another Tesla. (They also all are sick of the poor reliability and terrible service.) Seriously. This is a virtually universal opinion in my experience, but, I wonder if it's different depending on the political alignment of your ar…
Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course it does. Think about how, even in software, knowing that a physical shipping of a product (CD / Blu-ray) can be updated from "day 1" has led to poor quality releases with last minute patches. The cost of having to physically recall / resend CDs back in the day meant that what went out had to work. The cost of sloppy software has now been externalised.
Exactly. Back in the day it was a major milestone for video game projects to "go gold". It meant that the rigorous QA process was passed, and that retail copies were ready to be manufactured. Since that involved significant costs and physical logistics, companies certainly didn't want major bugs shipped at this stage. There were some exceptions, but ultimately this led to much higher customer satisfaction. Removing t…