Live data from Hacker News

Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

techcrunch.com

51–60 of 214 posts

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#51
post #31
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concluding that it's not intentional depends on the premise that they don't know they're doing it, which seems unlikely.

There's an enormous amount of evidence that almost no VC knows what they're doing (almost none beat index funds in the long run). YC seems to have a spray-and-pray approach, and it used to be run by Sam Altman who has repeatedly failed upward, so I think it's very reasonable to assume this is either not a conscious strategy or it's just a bad strategy. Either way, the VC's value is to be able to predict whether Dropb…

> Either way, the VC's value is to be able to predict whether Dropbox or Zumodrive deserves their bet, and they clearly couldn't.

This is an extremely wrong-headed view of what VCs do, and one thing investors do _in general_ is to have a strong idea of what they know and don't know, and in particular, what _nobody_ knows is which companies or products in particular will succeed or fail. If they knew that, they'd put all their eggs in one basket.

What VCs do is allocate capital in a way that mitigates risk for themselves.

There's actually a _really_ interesting way to think about what VCs do, which is that they _offload_ their own risk onto founders and early hires of startups. VCs invest their money across a broad basket of investments, founders invest all their time and money into _one_. VCs and early hires are taking a massive amount of personal risk. Almost all of the profits of VCs come from what is essentially a risk arbitrage -- they get more profits than they should be from the smaller risk they're taking by investing in a startup, and founders and early hires get less profits than they should be from the personal risk they're taking by starting a company.

The structure of investment deals is often setup in such a way that even events that "feel" like they should be a payday for the founders, such as a funding round or even a sale, could end up with them getting nothing because their shares get diluted, because they have lower priority ownership stakes than the VCs do.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#52

> YC startups don’t have to be unique. Far from it. Slow news day. YC has made it clear over the years it's almost all about the founders not the idea. It's almost impossible to know if an idea is good at the early stages, and ideas change, startups pivot, often the timing is wrong, and the market unproven etc. More often than not most of what startups do is not unique, otherwise there's no market for it. A new take…

> More often than not most of what startups do is not unique

The message is also that if your start-up is based on deep tech moats choose another seed. (Think of YC's home runs. None had an industry secret/IP secret sauce.)

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems reasonable to pick two horses in a race you believe is worth running

This creates an extremely obvious conflict of interest.

We need to define conflict of interest. Question: is an investor who gives money to one organization, but is not involved in the decision-making, conflicted if they give money to another organization? Are they self-conflicted (undermining their own likelihood of success)? Are they contractually or legally conflicted? Have they breached the trust of people they invested in? Are they ethically conflicted?

Answers to these questions are non-obvious. Attempts to simplify the set of relevant questions means imposing a worldview.

On the ethical question, a consequentialist would say it depends on the outcomes. Like many consequentialist analyses, this is complicated. Consider this: Investing in a similar company might validate the market and make it more likely for the company and/or its people to reach viability.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#54
I think this is actually okay. Execution matters, not the idea. Also if YC was trying to do coordination between its portfolio companies, it would be against the interests of the founders themselves because the founders do not care if another company in the YC batch succeeds or fails - they don't have a stake in that other company.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#55

I think this is actually okay. Execution matters, not the idea. Also if YC was trying to do coordination between its portfolio companies, it would be against the interests of the founders themselves because the founders do not care if another company in the YC batch succeeds or fails - they don't have a stake in that other company.

> Execution matters, not the idea.

Execution matters _as much as_ the idea.

A good idea executed poorly produces bad results.

A bad idea executed well produces bad results.

This is what YC is hedging (was it the execution or idea) by investing in duplicative startups.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting is that the people who are able to predict and come up with the idea (e.g. a researcher using AI in 2021) are often not the best ones to execute on it (typically, lack of experience or capacity to handle the pain of growth while marketing). What's most interesting is that most people aren't just "one type". In your life you go through multiple roles. Just like how most people, regardless of their i…

"Just like how most people, regardless of their income at age 20 will be earning top 35% income by age 35" Could you say more about this, or perhaps provide a link where we can read more?

The general is that income, like wealth, is correlated with age, not ransom. Most workers under 18 will be making near minimum wage. Workers in their 20s are probably still starting their careers. People fall off again when they are older, as they either retire early or in some professions just become less capable.

So when you put it all together, a lot of people with an under average career will have an over average income at 35: Just not an over average income within the cadre of 35 year olds.

The lack of correlation with income at 20 comes from how many careers require training that doesn't give good early income. A future doctor, barista or AI programmer are not likely to have. a great income at 20, but their incomes and wealth diverge rapidly as some have longer training with different outcomes. The doctor will hit the 1% after residency. The AI expert might start making money earlier. The barista is probably ahead in his 20s, but it's unlikely their income grew quite as much, although many a barista is working on doing something else. So again, looking just at percentile of income at different ages is going to lead to mistakes as different life curves are being aggregated together.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#57
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The great suspicion with YC is what proportion of YC companies have all their customers being a mix of other YC companies and those with shared investors? There is a real danger with current era Bay Area tech that it is just a game of musical chairs played with money, with remarkably little external value being generated.

> There is a real danger with current era Bay Area tech that it is just a game of musical chairs played with money, with remarkably little external value being generated. So, you don’t think that is already the case?

It was nothing like as bad as this 10 years ago, no.

Just look at the state of successful exits - it is awful. This is not the same as an ecosystem producing Sun, HP, Apple or even Google, which all had enormous positive externalities.

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#58

I think this is actually okay. Execution matters, not the idea. Also if YC was trying to do coordination between its portfolio companies, it would be against the interests of the founders themselves because the founders do not care if another company in the YC batch succeeds or fails - they don't have a stake in that other company.

> Execution matters, not the idea.

This is the core ethos driving Chinese manufacturers to rip off anything and everything they can

Re: Y Combinator often backs startups that duplicate other YC companies, data shows

#60
post #18

It makes sense. If you are an investor and have a strong belief that a specific product or idea is a good one - you might want to decouple your odds of success from the people/team/company executing that idea.

Exactly. I think this is a brilliant strategy by YC. They know that some ideas have great potential. They just back multiple teams and hope that one of them will win with their execution.
Post reply on HN