271–280 of 463 posts
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"recall" is a legal term, it means the vehicle is not road-legal and requires immediate action. Doesn't really matter if it hw, sw or maybe even the owners manual that needs to be changed ASAP.
If I have a flat tyre it's not a recall. Not everything about not being road-legal and requiring immediate action is a recall. That's a bad definition.
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It might be industry-standard term, but it’s certainly not understood that way by layman, including car customers. To the public, “recall” will always carry the implication that the vehicle needs to go back to the manufacturer for a fix.
I don't think that's true. Most people are accustomed to there being many "recalls" for trifling matters which can be simply ignored until maybe the next time they bring the car into the shop. A typical conversation about recalls: > "I changed your oil, and I also replaced one of your door seals because there was a recall for the rubber cracking in cold weather" > "Oh, okay." It doesn't colloquially imply that the ma…
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On https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls#recalls-7746 it says: > A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards. Most decisions to conduct a recall and remedy a safety defect are made voluntarily by manufacturers prior to any involvement by NHTSA. > Manufacturers are required to fix the probl…
There's a lot here about technical and legal definitions, but from the customer's perspective what they mostly care about is the inconvenience associated with a physical recall. Most people are accustomed to our phones and devices (auto-)updating, so software recalls just get mentally bundled in with that. The reporting seems dishonest because (in the mind of most readers) the headline exaggerates the inconvenience o…
No, customers care about the safety of their vehicles.
If there wasn't a safety issue, then customers could safely ignore the recall notice and experience no inconvenience.
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This always comes up. A “recall” is not a description of the remediation, it is a description of the problem. A recall is a public dangerous defect notice. The dangerous product version can no longer be deployed, existing systems suffering from the dangerous defect are identified, and then the version with those dangerous defects is removed from the market with all due speed by either refunding, replacing, or remedia…
> A recall is a public dangerous defect notice. Yes that's a much better term. In peoples minds "recall" means MY vehicle has to be transported somewhere to be fixed. For the individual customer, a recall can be a massive frustrating hassle, which an OTA isn't. That doesn't change the severity of the issue, but a model that has 9 physical recalls to fix some brake issue, and 1 OTA update is going to be seen as a disa…
Recalls are frustrating precisely because they're safety issues. Otherwise, customers could safely ignore recall notices and experience no frustration.
There's no law that says a customer has to respond to a recall. That's entirely voluntary.
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Well, the OED definition of 'recall' is "official order to return to a place" and a software update or fix requires no return to the place of purchase. I wonder how may legally defined 'recalls' Microsoft Windows has experienced with each new version.
I think the gist is "recall" is the same saying "safety issue that needs to be fixed in the software or hardware" since we don't have a word for software issues, which carry a bit more weight on a fly-by-wire vehicle like the Cybertruck. Interesting to note that this thread seems to be full of a lot of people choosing to be pedantic over the word "recall" rather than taking a critical look at the Cybertruck and it's…
Being pedantic over a single word out of 100 is HN's bread and butter. How many times have you read a comment here that boiled down to "The author's entire article is invalid because in paragraph 3, word 65 he used the wrong word!"
Bonus points when the poster is himself also wrong about the meaning of the word, as is the case in this thread where people don't know what a "recall" is in the automotive world.
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I'm not sure I agree. From the perspective of a customer, not being able to drive the car due to it being unsafe is the part that matters, not where and how the manufacturer has to fix it. If you're opposed to it based on the assumption that it wouldn't take as long, I agree that might be true, but by that logic we should be categorizing _all_ recalls based on length (regardless of whether it's a software update or o…
It still doesn't sound right to me. Sure we can get adapted to the new meaning of the term as time goes on, but to me the term has strong implications to physically bring it back, and it is weird that people are claiming that it doesn't. Surely this causes a lot of confusion at the very least people thinking those vehicles actually have to be brought back.
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The problem is that those issues shouldn't happen on a public road vehicle to begin with. Tesla's approach is shipping beta software to customers, and using them as testers. This is an insidious practice in modern software development, but is criminal when that software is running a 3-ton vehicle, regardless if it can be fixed with an OTA update or not. There are reasons why strict car safety regulations exist. You c…
It's not just Tesla. All the online services you depend on are run this way, and none of it's regulated. Governments don't know how to regulate software companies like Tesla. They know how to regulate people constructing homes, cooking food, and building bridges but most attempts at regulating software development have petered out. This is a good thing. Thanks to Tesla's modern approach to car manufacturing it is now…
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The problem is that those issues shouldn't happen on a public road vehicle to begin with. Tesla's approach is shipping beta software to customers, and using them as testers. This is an insidious practice in modern software development, but is criminal when that software is running a 3-ton vehicle, regardless if it can be fixed with an OTA update or not. There are reasons why strict car safety regulations exist. You c…
I wonder whether OTA updates being possible encourages manufacturers to be sloppy with software quality. They know they can fix problems cheaply. If they had to physically update vehicles they would have a lot more incentive to make updates unnecessary.
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You are preaching to the choir, I an a public transit advocate. But I am also a realist, and as much I'd like buses and trains, we are going to have private cars anyways, and if private cars are inevitable, I'd rather they be electric.
> if private cars are inevitable, I'd rather they be electric. Thats the issue. The car industry has brainwashed everyone into thinking that owning an EV is the best option for the planet. It isnt. EVs are way more pollutant in creation and disposal. Emissions out of the exhaust pipe are one tiny part of the climate impact of a vehicle. Replacing Petrol/Diesel with Hydrogen/Synthetic fuel is a much greener option ove…
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/driving-cleaner
The Cybertruck is a likely exception. It's manufacturing emissions are likely enormous and it's likely to be driven less than average since it's impractical.
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> if private cars are inevitable, I'd rather they be electric. Thats the issue. The car industry has brainwashed everyone into thinking that owning an EV is the best option for the planet. It isnt. EVs are way more pollutant in creation and disposal. Emissions out of the exhaust pipe are one tiny part of the climate impact of a vehicle. Replacing Petrol/Diesel with Hydrogen/Synthetic fuel is a much greener option ove…
All credible lifecycle ghg emissions analyses have found that EVs have substantial reductions vs ICE. It is true that they have more emissions from manufacture but this is overcome, on average, in a few years. This is true even on carbon intense electric grids. And their emissions drop as the grid gets cleaner. https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/driving-cleaner The Cybertruck is a likely exception. It's manufacturing e…
On top of that they have massive chemical battery packs which are horrible to mine the resources for, are useless after 10 years, and cannot be recycled.
The report you quoted confirms all of this.
Simply putting synthetic fuel into our existing cars negates all of that and turns our existing cars tailpipe emissions into water.