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Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

jpkoning.blogspot.com

21–30 of 246 posts

Re: Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

#21

The convenience of cutting paper money in half is a really anachronistic element of this tale - I’ve got a fair amount of money saved up, and approximately none of it exists as paper, so much as it exists ‘on paper’ - that is, as figures marked in a bank’s digital ledger, somewhere in a server farm. How would an effort like this be handled today? … a new crypto currency?

The tricky part isn't money on a digital ledger. That's easy enough to handle with e.g. a one-off deposit tax (IIRC used as recently as the Euro crisis). There's no operational problem here, it just needs to be legislated to happen. Executing the operation properly might take a while (it's not something they'd have a process for), but banks must already have in place systems for e.g. freezing assets which could be used to buy time.

Bonds can just have a haircut on their nominal value, which is pretty much standard operation procedure during a financial bailout.

The real problem is deposits in foreign banks in foreign currencies. In the modern world by the time a country would be looking into this kind of a measure, a lot of the capital will have already fled. In this case the blocker is jurisdiction / sovereignty, not any kind of technical limitation.

Re: Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

#22
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As someone who knew a few people under age 35 who died from Covid, I find this comment offensive.

In my ~2mio pop country, by the end of restrictions, we had (iirc) 5 people in the "below 35" age group what died 'with covid' (not necessarily because of it).

For comparison, that's way less than traffic deaths. Even way less than suicide rates in that age group (and we all know how bad the lockdowns were for many peoples' mental health).

We also had a 20yo girl die because of vaccine-induced clots. She got vaccinated, because she had to (couldn't use public transport without either a vaccine or getting tested every 48 hours, and there was no testing location near her to get tested).

Let's not mention all the other promises.

We took out a good year of schooling and socializing for the whole generation of kids, with empty promises of "when we get vaccines, you won't be able to infect grandma".

Re: Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

#23
Fascinating piece of financial history I hadn't heard about. Imagine your government telling you to literally take scissors to your money, it's like a weird mix between arts & crafts hour and monetary policy. Though I suppose we're already halfway there with our modern central banks, just without the satisfying snip-snip sounds.

The Finnish experiment failing because people just deposited their cash in banks first is a classic example of Goodhart's Law in action. Or as I like to call it, "If you tell people you're going to cut their money in half, they'll find a way to keep it whole."

What's really interesting is Belgium's more successful approach, they went full scorched earth on 2/3 of their money supply and somehow managed to pull off an economic miracle. Makes our current inflation-fighting tools look rather tame in comparison. "Sorry, best we can do is nudge interest rates up a quarter point at a time.

Re: Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

#25
> It's not just the size of Operation Gutt that is striking to the modern eye. It's also the oddity of the tool being used. Today, we control inflation with changes in interest rates, not changes in the quantity of money. To soften the effect of the global COVID monetary overhang, for instance, central banks in the U.S., Canada, and Europe began to raise rates in 2022 from around 0% to 4-5% in 2024.

It's a bit more interesting than 'the central bank sets interest rates'.

Simplified: the central bank decide on an interest rate that they want to see. By itself that decision doesn't do anything.

What happens next is that they buy and sell government bonds in the open market. The interest rate can be seen as the inverse of the price of bonds.

If the central bank wants to see a lower interest rate, they buy bonds with freshly printed money to drive up their prices, ie drive down the interest rate.

If the central banks wants to increase the prevailing interest rate, they sell government bonds from their inventory and essentially destroy they money they receive in return.

So even when the language of modern central banking talks about interest rates, they still change the quantity of money to implement that.

(This is all simplified, especially with the interest on excess reserves that was popular with the Fed for a while. And there's also repos and reverse repos etc.)

Re: Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

#26
I live in Norway, most people I know in private life that are of working age do not actually work, and for the most part they have better lives than I do, and I do work. The amount of people on sick leave have absolutely skyrocketed. 60% of welfare benefits in Norway go to immigrants and the population in cities grows faster than new homes are built.

The causes and solutions of inflation are not complex. People just don't want it fixed.

Re: Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

#27

Fascinating piece of financial history I hadn't heard about. Imagine your government telling you to literally take scissors to your money, it's like a weird mix between arts & crafts hour and monetary policy. Though I suppose we're already halfway there with our modern central banks, just without the satisfying snip-snip sounds. The Finnish experiment failing because people just deposited their cash in banks first is…

Turkey dropped six zeroes off their currency in the 2000s.

Technically, you could describe that as cutting 999,9999/1,000,000 of their money supply. (Especially if they had done a funny dance like the Finnish, where you would use some scissors to only keep the tiny top left corner of your old notes, and can exchange that for new ones.)

In practice, people saw the Turkish currency reform as merely a cosmetic change, not an actually reduction in the money supply.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revaluation_of_the_Turkish_lir...

Re: Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

#28
post #4

Mentioning the war on COVID but not the actual war between Russia and Ukraine that caused a huge spike in European energy prices is a big omission, since that caused a lot of global inflation.

Extreme hike in energy prices was about four months before the war began. It’s when EU decided to abandon long term gas contracts and turned to spot prices (~11.2021). The war started in 02.2022.

Well, the full scale portion of the war started in February 2022.

But you are right otherwise.

Re: Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

#29
post #4

Mentioning the war on COVID but not the actual war between Russia and Ukraine that caused a huge spike in European energy prices is a big omission, since that caused a lot of global inflation.

Extreme hike in energy prices was about four months before the war began. It’s when EU decided to abandon long term gas contracts and turned to spot prices (~11.2021). The war started in 02.2022.

From your perspective the war started in 2022.

In reality that phase of the war started before. Russia did not improvise this war. They started disrupting the supply in 2021 to ensure that Europe would not fill their strategic reserves / winter storage during the summer, thus insuring maximum leverage when they needed it. This is well documented [1]

Note that this is just talking about this phase of the war. Hostilities started in 2014 when parts of Ukraine "suddenly self-liberated" themselves. Helped by mysterious soldiers in professional but unmarked uniforms.

[1] https://www.banque-france.fr/en/publications-and-statistics/...

Re: Setelinleikkaus: When Finns snipped their cash in half to curb inflation

#30
post #21

The convenience of cutting paper money in half is a really anachronistic element of this tale - I’ve got a fair amount of money saved up, and approximately none of it exists as paper, so much as it exists ‘on paper’ - that is, as figures marked in a bank’s digital ledger, somewhere in a server farm. How would an effort like this be handled today? … a new crypto currency?

The tricky part isn't money on a digital ledger. That's easy enough to handle with e.g. a one-off deposit tax (IIRC used as recently as the Euro crisis). There's no operational problem here, it just needs to be legislated to happen. Executing the operation properly might take a while (it's not something they'd have a process for), but banks must already have in place systems for e.g. freezing assets which could be us…

> The real problem is deposits in foreign banks in foreign currencies.

Well, money abroad doesn't contribute to local inflation, does it?

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