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Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

reuters.com

61–70 of 137 posts

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#61
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly but true. The latest issue is that the EC would rather see the auto industry fail than to change its climate objectives. It looks like it gotten so bad that Germany started speaking up against emissions goals and most likely would try to block any measures. I don't think Arianne is successful as it relies on traditional technology to launch things into space and they can't be competitive with SpaceX. The EU is…

Mistral is french

True, and in my opinion a proof that Europe has potential to recover. Unfortunately it remains to be seen if they manage to survive oncoming regulator onslaught.

I hope they will.

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profits and subsidies are privatized, losses are socialized. That's how the system is designed to work.

This. The system works just as intended. If the state is throwing free money around why wouldn't you pick it up and pocket it? Your job isn't to create jobs or return on investment, it's to funnel that free state money in the pockets of shareholders. For those looking for another similar example of European subsidized tech failure check the ST-Ericsson story.

This is a bit of a black and white way of putting it. Yes, much state money is wasted, but not all. Some of the money went to Swedish construction workers for example.

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#63
post #56
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Europe as major part of the West continues to fail this is going to happen - Russian influence will rise and dominate at least major parts of Eastern Europe - China will expand its footprint in Africa and increase its ambition in Asia - US and Japan will become more isolated than ever

Nothing is going to stop China's rise but China's own failings (mostly demographically). Russia can't even beat a country one third its own size despite petrol dollars and legacy military stock.

Russia does not need to win to still wreak havoc.

Their hybrid warfare has created massive social rifts and political instability across all major Western Democracies.

Unfortunately you do not need a lot of money to do evil, when the devil's whispers are enough to turn citizens of a nation against each other.

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#64
post #50
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volkswagen has their own plans with its subsidary PowerCo, and since EV adoption is slower than expected, they may (partly) drop Northvolt in favor of PowerCo. Interestingly they canceled their plan for a second battery plant in Germany due to high energy costs. Regarding Germany: I still do not understand how you want to electrify everything, reduce CO2 emissions, and then shut down fully working nuclear power plant…

> I still do not understand... Renewables? + some batteries + gas peaker as winter backup The nuclear plants weren't fully working anymore but taken into planned shutdown 10 years after the decision was made to shut them down. That people think Nuclear is a power technology where you can just nilly-willy decide to continue running is the real idiocy. Energy prices are now lower than before the run-up to the Russian w…

The decision to fade out nuclear power was made under the assumption of having an alternative reliable energy source (namely Russian gas). If your main assumption suddenly blows up (literally), do you really claim that stubbornly sticking to your original plan is the right way to go?

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#65

Europe is entering a crisis of unprecedented proportions. This isn't just an isolated incident, one bad company, this is a trend. It used to be that subsidies managed to balance out the over-regulation, high labor costs and powerful pressure groups Europe was known for. Now it's no longer the case. There used to be a technological edge European countries (especially in the west) could rely on, which made them more su…

Sadly but true. The latest issue is that the EC would rather see the auto industry fail than to change its climate objectives. It looks like it gotten so bad that Germany started speaking up against emissions goals and most likely would try to block any measures. I don't think Arianne is successful as it relies on traditional technology to launch things into space and they can't be competitive with SpaceX. The EU is…

Flux (the image generator of xAI) is by Black Forest Labs - a german AI company for example.

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#66
post #46
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery cell production alone is massively expensive. The expenses in setting up a production line is counted in the billions. So the only way to start fresh here is to raise billions in capital. Unless you're Volkswagen or something, when you could invest billions in an enterprise like this one.

Volkswagen has their own plans with its subsidary PowerCo, and since EV adoption is slower than expected, they may (partly) drop Northvolt in favor of PowerCo. Interestingly they canceled their plan for a second battery plant in Germany due to high energy costs. Regarding Germany: I still do not understand how you want to electrify everything, reduce CO2 emissions, and then shut down fully working nuclear power plant…

I attribute it to idiocy, but not on the part of Germany today. Sibling comments have already pointed out that a shutdown of nuclear was already decided in 2011 and that you can't just reverse that decision on a whim. I want to add that the shutdown is a culmination of over 60 years of lobbying, first by the Green Party when they were still single-issue radicals in parliament, then by environmental groups like Greenpeace. I like to believe that their intentions have always been good and noble, but to prioritize nuclear over the real polluter (fossil fuels) has always struck me as idiotic. It didn't help that the media constantly painted the search for a final resting place for nuclear waste as an insurmountable crisis, and of course Fukushima basically did the rest.

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#67
post #51
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volkswagen has their own plans with its subsidary PowerCo, and since EV adoption is slower than expected, they may (partly) drop Northvolt in favor of PowerCo. Interestingly they canceled their plan for a second battery plant in Germany due to high energy costs. Regarding Germany: I still do not understand how you want to electrify everything, reduce CO2 emissions, and then shut down fully working nuclear power plant…

> shut down fully working nuclear power plants in the middle of an energy supply crisis Yes it is a stupid decision, but your timeline is out a little - 2011 is when they decided to shut down the power plants, the energy crisis was 2022. The amount of work that doesnt get done when you are 2/3/4 years from end of life makes reversing the decision on the day of shutdown not as easy on the ground as it is from an armch…

In a crisis you sometimes have to go the non-easy way. They built terminals for fracking gas in record time, so I am sure they could have found a way to keep those nuclear power plants running for a few more years.

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#68
post #52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grifters and con artists are skilled in the ways of grifting and cons. Note "Britishvolt" suffered the same fate 12-18 months earlier and the story reads pretty much the same.

The name "Britishvolt" alone should be sufficient to raise all red flags.

And blue and white.

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#69
post #52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grifters and con artists are skilled in the ways of grifting and cons. Note "Britishvolt" suffered the same fate 12-18 months earlier and the story reads pretty much the same.

The name "Britishvolt" alone should be sufficient to raise all red flags.

The government loved the name and flew that flag high.

Re: Northvolt goes from Europe battery promise to crisis

#70
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expanding to multiple EU states is a requirement to satisfy the various governments if you are getting public EU funding. See Airbus for an example.

The difference is that Airbus didn't as much build new factories (and certainly not several at the same time) as it is a consortium (and later a unified company) of formerly independent European aerospace companies. E. g. their current German plants, Hamburg (commercial aircraft) and Donauwörth (helicopters) used to belong to MBB ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt-B%C3%B6lkow-Bloh... ) and then DASA ( http…

I read something once about the question of Airbus and Boeing subsidies. The short answer was “It’s complicated.”

Of course, that particular question seems to have been rendered irrelevant by Boeing’s quality crisis.

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