Earlier quoted context omitted.
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What does rust have to do with fly.io?
Snark aside, Joel is suggesting that because Fly uses rust-based virtualization software they should have a more reliable deployment process.
Fly.io outage – resolved
81–90 of 287 posts
Re: Fly.io outage – resolved
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
In fairness to the fly.io folks (who are extremely serious hackers), they’re standing up a whole cloud provider and they’ve priced it attractively and they’re much customer-friendlier than most alternatives. I don’t envy the difficulty of doing this, but I’m quite confident they’ll iron the bugs out.
The tech is impressive and the pricing is attractive which is why we use them. I just wish there was less black magic.
I don’t always agree with @tptacek on social/political issues, and I don’t always agree with @xe on the direction of Nix, but these are legends on the technical side of things. And they’re trying to build an equitable relationship between the user of cloud services and the provider, not fund a private space program.
If I were in the market for cloud services I’d highly prize a long-term relationship on mutual benefit and fair dealings over a short-term nuisance of being an early adopter.
I strongly suspect your investment in fly is going to pay off.
Re: Fly.io outage – resolved
#83Re: Fly.io outage – resolved
#84Color me not surprised. My few interactions with people there just gave off the impression of them being in a bit over their heads. I don't know how well that translated to their actual ops, but it's difficult to not connect the two when they continue to have major outage after major outage for a product that 'should' be their customer's bedrock upon which they build everything else.
Re: Fly.io outage – resolved
#85Re: Fly.io outage – resolved
#86No surprise. About a year ago, I looked at fly.io because of it's low pricing and I was wondering where they were cutting corners to still make some money. Ultimately, I found the answer in their tech docs where it was spelled out clearly that an fly instance is hardwired to one physical server and thus cannot fail over in case that server dies. Not sure if that part still is in the official documentation. In practic…
If you want HA on Fly you need to deploy an app to multiple regions (multiple machines).
Fly might still go down completely if their proxy layer fails but it's much less common.
Re: Fly.io outage – resolved
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what a lot of people fail to understand is that there are certain categories of apps that simply “can never go down” Examples include basically any PaaS, IaaS, or any company that provides a mission-critical service to another company (B2B SaaS). If you run a basic B2C CRUD app, maybe it’s not a big deal if you service goes down for 5 minutes. Unfortunately there are quite a few categories of companies where…
Every PaaS and IaaS I’ve ever used has had some amount of downtime, often considerably more than 5 minutes, and I’ve run production services on many of them. Plenty of random issues on major cloud providers as well. Certainly plenty of situations with dozens of Twitter posts happening but never any acknowledgement on the AWS status page. Nothing’s perfect.
Yea, when running services where 5 minutes of downtime results in lots of support tickets, you learn to accept that the incident will happen and learn to manage the incident rather than relying that it will never occur.
Re: Fly.io outage – resolved
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
No dog in this fight, all props to the Fly.io team for having the gumption to do what they are doing, I genuinely hope they are successful... > It's still 99.99+% SLA But this is simply not accurate. 99.99% uptime is annually of downtime. They apparently blew well through that today. Looks like they essentially had the equivalent of 4 years of 99.99% uptime equivalent this evening. Four nines is so unforgiving that i…
99.99+% SLA typically means you get some billing credits for the downtime exceeding 99.99+ availability. So technically do get a "99.99+% SLA", but you don't get 99.99+% availability. Other circles use "SLO" (where the O stands for objective). (Anyone know what the details in fly.io SLA are?)
You are correct in the legal/technical sense!
Technically, anyone could offer five- or six-nines and just depend on most customers not to claim the credits :-D
Actually hitting/exceeding four nines is still tough.
Re: Fly.io outage – resolved
#89No surprise. About a year ago, I looked at fly.io because of it's low pricing and I was wondering where they were cutting corners to still make some money. Ultimately, I found the answer in their tech docs where it was spelled out clearly that an fly instance is hardwired to one physical server and thus cannot fail over in case that server dies. Not sure if that part still is in the official documentation. In practic…
> Ultimately, I found the answer in their tech docs where it was spelled out clearly that an fly instance is hardwired to one physical server and thus cannot fail over in case that server dies. Majority of EC2 instance types did not have live migration until very recently. Some probably still don't (they don't really spell out how and when it's supposed to work). It is also not free - there's a noticeable brown-out w…
Can you shed some more light on this "browning out" phenomenon?
Re: Fly.io outage – resolved
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Snark aside, Joel is suggesting that because Fly uses rust-based virtualization software they should have a more reliable deployment process.
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By asking directly and someone answering, it solves the problem for the person wondering, but also anyone else wondering (i.e. asking directly scales very nicely).