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Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

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Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#11

Post by michaelsbradley »

sramsay wrote: post #10
chamanbuga wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know Orthodox Christians prostrated in their prayer much less use prayer rugs. Curious where this practice remains today.

Prostrations are part of every Orthodox tradition, to my knowledge. You will even see people making prostrations publicly in church especially during Great Lent, but you will generally not see people doing it at a Sunday liturgy since (in most traditions) prostrations are forbidden on Sundays.

They're part of the Western (Catholic) tradition as well, but less frequently encountered: during the Litany of the Saints that precedes ordination to the priesthood those to be ordained are prostrate; the ministers at the start of the Good Friday liturgy lie prostrate before the altar; and a few other special contexts.

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#12

Post by _DeadFred_ »

chamanbuga wrote: post #6
kasey_junk wrote: post #5

One thing I’ve been curious about for a long time is if the use of prayer rugs in the Orthodox Churches predates Islam or was picked up by Christians from their Muslim neighbors.

I didn't know Orthodox Christians prostrated in their prayer much less use prayer rugs. Curious where this practice remains today.

Every Orthodox service I've been to we stood the entire time, though I never went on special holidays. My inner ex-Catholic wondered is it really church if I don't kneel and stand, kneel and stand, kneel and stand all through the service?

My Ukrainian ex had a worship space in a corner. It didn't have any rugs but had hauntingly beautiful hand painted icons. Maybe rugs are more of a thing in the old countries?

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#14

Post by jacobolus »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #12
chamanbuga wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know Orthodox Christians prostrated in their prayer much less use prayer rugs. Curious where this practice remains today.

Every Orthodox service I've been to we stood the entire time, though I never went on special holidays. My inner ex-Catholic wondered is it really church if I don't kneel and stand, kneel and stand, kneel and stand all through the service? My Ukrainian ex had a worship space in a corner. It didn't have any rugs but had hauntingly beautiful hand painted icons. Maybe rugs are more of a thing in the old countries?

Churches probably have some kind of theological explanation, but alternately kneeling, sitting, and standing is much better physiologically. Having a large and diverse group of people all stay in the same position for an extended period is very rough on their bodies, and some more than others. Periodically switching prevents injuries caused by maintaining too much static load for too long in any one place. Probably also helps keep everyone awake. For the same reasons it's a good idea to occasionally switch positions while working.

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#15

Post by PrismCrystal »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #12
chamanbuga wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know Orthodox Christians prostrated in their prayer much less use prayer rugs. Curious where this practice remains today.

Every Orthodox service I've been to we stood the entire time, though I never went on special holidays. My inner ex-Catholic wondered is it really church if I don't kneel and stand, kneel and stand, kneel and stand all through the service? My Ukrainian ex had a worship space in a corner. It didn't have any rugs but had hauntingly beautiful hand painted icons. Maybe rugs are more of a thing in the old countries?

Practices in Orthodox services can differ. For example, in some Romanian parishes everyone has knelt while the Gospel was being read, but I have never seen this elsewhere. And as the other poster mentions, full prostrations are done (and widely across the Orthodox world) in certain contexts.

Some churches in Greece and Albania have pews -- the concept was brought back from the North American diaspora where Orthodox parishes were set up in former Protestant or Catholic church buildings -- so you can do all the standing, sitting, and kneeling you might be accustomed too.

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#17

Post by PrismCrystal »

mkoubaa wrote: post #16

In all the years of using one I never thought it made anything sacred. It keeps my forehead clean and cushions my knees

This reminds me of the practice in Egypt where men would intentionally press their heads into the ground when praying in order to develop a callous, colloquially called a zebiba, showing off their piety. Is this still fashionable? When I traveled rural Egypt in 2008 it was omnipresent; one shopkeeper told me he no longer believed in religion, but he had to develop a zebiba nevertheless, otherwise no one would buy from his shop.

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#18

Post by giraffe_lady »

jacobolus wrote: post #14
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Orthodox service I've been to we stood the entire time, though I never went on special holidays. My inner ex-Catholic wondered is it really church if I don't kneel and stand, kneel and stand, kneel and stand all through the service? My Ukrainian ex had a worship space in a corner. It didn't have any rugs but had hauntingly beautiful hand painted icons. Maybe rugs are more of a thing in the old countries?

Churches probably have some kind of theological explanation, but alternately kneeling, sitting, and standing is much better physiologically. Having a large and diverse group of people all stay in the same position for an extended period is very rough on their bodies, and some more than others. Periodically switching prevents injuries caused by maintaining too much static load for too long in any one place. Probably a…

There are theological explanations but it is also explicitly taught that physical movement and awareness of your body is an important part of prayer, similar to how bells and incense ask you to include those senses.

Also there isn't a rule against sitting, orthodox churches have seats for people who need or want them and it's absolutely normal to see people sit for some or all of services. It is discouraged to notice who or wonder why.

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#19

Post by asadalt »

sramsay wrote: post #10
chamanbuga wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know Orthodox Christians prostrated in their prayer much less use prayer rugs. Curious where this practice remains today.

Prostrations are part of every Orthodox tradition, to my knowledge. You will even see people making prostrations publicly in church especially during Great Lent, but you will generally not see people doing it at a Sunday liturgy since (in most traditions) prostrations are forbidden on Sundays.

there is something about prostrations that’s interesting but i can’t tell what exactly scientifically. But it brings me relief everytime I do it in namaz. I understand that the act of submission is relieving (things will be ok/there is someone looking out for me) but also physically (hard to explain)

no wonder it’s the meat of the entire prayer. Taking a prayer break from my messy code problems really resets my brain strain very quickly.

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#20

Post by ralmidani »

pvg wrote: post #7
kasey_junk wrote: post #5

One thing I’ve been curious about for a long time is if the use of prayer rugs in the Orthodox Churches predates Islam or was picked up by Christians from their Muslim neighbors.

That whole bundle of traditions - prayer times, prayer directions, prayer accessories, etc predates Islam if for no other reason than that Islam is comparatively new. But the cross-pollination could have easily happened more than once and in both directions.

Even Muslims do not claim their religion is completely novel. The rituals may differ, but the creed preached by Muhammad (peace and blessings upon him) is the same preached by Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, John, Jesus, and countless other prophets (peace be upon them all): worship The One True God (Allah, Yahweh) with no partners.

As far as prayer rugs and other accessories, those are not actually part of our rituals as Muslims. Some people use them for practical purposes (prayer rugs help you avoid prostrating on dirt, asphalt, a potentially unclean carpet, etc. and prayer beads make it easier to keep count), while some others may have cultural reasons, and some just want to enhance their spiritual experience (e.g. incense and perfume).

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