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The size of BYD's factory

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Re: The size of BYD's factory

#511

Post by coliveira »

petesergeant wrote: post #407
ahartmetz wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doubts about the size of the investment in that Wikipedia article are funny. It's a bit like "We cannot afford to invest in education", but the Chinese are saying "We cannot afford not to invest in education" (Famous quotes, it's more about R&D here). China's leadership is probably terrified of falling into the middle-income trap. It might be the biggest issue on their minds right now. At least I am watching from…

> China's leadership is probably terrified of falling into the middle-income trap I feel like it's more of a case of how do they get out of it, rather than avoid falling into it, at this point. The demographics are shit and the country isn't particularly attractive to immigrants, nor (unlike, America and Canada, and honestly most of Europe, despite what the right wing say) do they really have room for more immigrants…

The whole "demographics" scare about China is clear nonsense. Even if that becomes true, it will take 25 to 30 years for it to manifest, because China consumption is in a growing curve. The current young working population is more educated and productive than ever. And China still has hundreds of millions of people to be included into its consumer and labor market in the poorest areas. So don't hold your breath about a "demographics" problem for China, it will take decades for this to happen if ever at all.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#512

Post by divbzero »

wingerlang wrote: post #396

I don't know about elsewhere in the world, but the amount of BYD's I see on the streets of Bangkoks today compared to say two years ago must be an 1000% increase. They are absolutely everywhere.

They aren’t everywhere yet here in the United States. The only one I’ve seen so far was a public bus in a rural town.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#513

Post by slt2021 »

makerdiety wrote: post #391
mschuster91 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a type of Western mind that gets distracted by their scale, and getting to build things we built a century ago. The thing is, overcapacity combined with the 996 week and labor exploitation can be used to outcompete any Western company - especially the old ones, who are spread around the country. Look at the supply chain of the established (i.e. everyone but Tesla) companies... dozens of manufacturing plants…

Vertical integration, or a company claiming to take ownership of its supply chain, needs the democratic miracle that is exclusive security of supplies and their logistical distribution. No American company is ever going to militarily secure natural resources or a nanostate territory for its profits. And that's why all American companies (or any traditional, humanist company) will fail to achieve profits which ensure…

thats a whole bunch of handwaving without any fact nor supported argument

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#514

Post by sushid »

coliveira wrote: post #505
alsodumb wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries, maybe. But China is never gonna conquer or do reasonable business in India for geopolitical reasons.

That's not even realistic. India is part of BRICS, and one of the main goals of this group is to increase trading between members. I agree part of Indian society doesn't like it, but it won't make any difference.

I'm sorry but that's a very naive take. That's like saying OPEC nations are always cooperative because they're part of the same economic organization.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#515

Post by toomuchtodo »

divbzero wrote: post #512
wingerlang wrote: post #396

I don't know about elsewhere in the world, but the amount of BYD's I see on the streets of Bangkoks today compared to say two years ago must be an 1000% increase. They are absolutely everywhere.

They aren’t everywhere yet here in the United States. The only one I’ve seen so far was a public bus in a rural town.

You won't see them in the US due to punitive tariffs.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#516

Post by coliveira »

sangnoir wrote: post #307
refulgentis wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are prima facie wrong, their overcapacity is bad and actively harmful, this isn't a sign of it succeeding, its a sign of desperation from it failing. There's a type of Western mind that gets distracted by their scale, and getting to build things we built a century ago. Dazzled by the spectacle, this misses that their economy is characterized by deflationary headwinds due to a massive, massive over-investment in…

> There's a type of Western mind that gets distracted by their scale, and getting to build things we built a century ago Where in the US can one find the secret, cross-country high-speed rail built in the roaring twenties?! There's also a type of western mind that automatically dismisses the odds of a different country succeeding, based on nothing but the fact that they are using a different approach (on the surface)…

This is a systemic issue with the Western way of thinking. The West always consider itself to be the most evolved culture in history. First, by way of Christianity, later, by way of markets, democracy, and science. This way of thinking is self-deceiving because they cannot understand that other cultures can offer something equal or better. So, when faced with the advance of other cultures they necessarily have to dismiss them as inferior.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#517

Post by throwawaymaths »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #273
throwawaymaths wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> our best chance to avoid catastrophic outcomes from climate change The US and EU are long off-peak carbon emissions (emissions even decreased during the Trump administration I, even using a trendline ignoring COVID). The biggest emitter right now is China, and it's emissions are growing not shrinking, and a considerable amount of that (including 90% of the worlds new coal plants) goes to projects like this.

China is building more renewable energy than the rest of the world combined. At this point there is no “let’s just reduce our emissions by 30% or so and hope things work out” plan that’s compatible with stopping worst-case outcomes, there is only a “let’s replace every single energy and fuel source with non-emitting ones on a ridiculously short timescale” plan. Insofar as we have a chance of doing that, it’s because…

> To the extent that they’re using fossil fuels to build the infrastructure for this renewable tech, I’m completely fine with that.

Building renewable tech is such a small percentage of chinese output. And besides, at a very small ~10-20% premium you can get far more efficient and durable solar panels from South Korea. And by doing so, you can buy your solar panels from a country that is past carbon peak.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#518

Post by bobthepanda »

coliveira wrote: post #516
sangnoir wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a type of Western mind that gets distracted by their scale, and getting to build things we built a century ago Where in the US can one find the secret, cross-country high-speed rail built in the roaring twenties?! There's also a type of western mind that automatically dismisses the odds of a different country succeeding, based on nothing but the fact that they are using a different approach (on the surface)…

This is a systemic issue with the Western way of thinking. The West always consider itself to be the most evolved culture in history. First, by way of Christianity, later, by way of markets, democracy, and science. This way of thinking is self-deceiving because they cannot understand that other cultures can offer something equal or better. So, when faced with the advance of other cultures they necessarily have to dis…

This isn't really unique to any particular culture. China spent a good couple millenia referring to anyone outside its borders as 'barbarians.'

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#519

Post by coliveira »

JackFr wrote: post #480
sangnoir wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a type of Western mind that gets distracted by their scale, and getting to build things we built a century ago Where in the US can one find the secret, cross-country high-speed rail built in the roaring twenties?! There's also a type of western mind that automatically dismisses the odds of a different country succeeding, based on nothing but the fact that they are using a different approach (on the surface)…

For those old enough to remember, we heard it all before in the 1980's about Japan so experience has made us circumspect. But even more so, markets enforce discipline on capital that state directed firms don't have. Everyone decries executives who "only look as far as next quarter's profits", and while admittedly at the margins that can have perverse incentives, in the large it demands that management put capital to…

This "market discipline" also requires that companies only look for their immediate future and next quarter profits. This makes it hard to do anything long term, which is exactly what China is doing. Even companies like Google, that expressly said to make decisions based on a long term view, are pushed by the markets to consider only their current profits, which reflects in the changes we see in the company.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#520

Post by coliveira »

sushid wrote: post #514
coliveira wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even realistic. India is part of BRICS, and one of the main goals of this group is to increase trading between members. I agree part of Indian society doesn't like it, but it won't make any difference.

I'm sorry but that's a very naive take. That's like saying OPEC nations are always cooperative because they're part of the same economic organization.

OPEC has nothing to do with economic integration, it is just a group of countries setting oil prices. G7 countries deceive themselves if they think BRICS is just another OPEC. You should think of BRICS as a multilateral Belt and Road initiative.
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